Taking things from the board in game.

[Wezas]

Wezas,

Serious allegations have been made as to your conduct
in the lands that is not appropriate as a member of
House Sovyn under the charter guidelines.

It is imperative that you contact House officers and
set up a meeting to discuss these allegations.

If you do not, action will be taken that may include
expulsion from the House.

Thank you,

XXXXX,
XXXX, House Sovyn


This is all about the log I posted here about refusing to heal a "dirt elf".

I'll be looking into a locker at Silvergate shortly.

[Brattt8525]

That is taking things a bit far. Sheesh we have spies??????

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Brattt8525
That is taking things a bit far. Sheesh we have spies??????

Evidently. My first warning was a U2U sent by the person - so they obviously saw it here.

[Izalude]

.....

[Axhinde]

Originally posted by Izalude
.....

My thoughts exactly.

[StrayRogue]

After such BS, I'd tell em where to fucking shove it, personally. Its their loss as far as they're concerned.

[Wezas]

Their concern was also that I stated (here on the boards) that I use House Sovyn mainly as a locker. Which is true.

[Snapp]

Lame and a half. :thumbsdown:

Wow, that's pretty lame.

[Trinitis]

My empath had her house app rejected because she "refuses" to heal people at times.

:shrug:

[Axhinde]

So, basically House Sovyn is a "Good Citizen" Mafia of sorts.

[HarmNone]

That really is lame, Wezas. Things said here should never impact one's character in the game.

If you only used the house as a locker, however, it shouldn't make much difference which house you use...except for the fact that you'll have to pay a fee to join most houses.

Whoever took this from these boards into the game.......:noob:

[Kainen]

That is utter bullshit.. to warn you in a U2U here.. fuck them then.. thats all I got to say. Checking out shit about people exploiting bugs is ONE thing.. but to use this place for IG stuff is just lame as HELL.

[Artha]

That is utter bullshit.. to warn you in a U2U here.. fuck them then.. thats all I got to say. Checking out shit about people exploiting bugs is ONE thing.. but to use this place for IG stuff is just lame as HELL.

You seem to be under the impression that House Sovyn is run by Brauden. This isn't the case.

[Chadj]

Buy an uber 1337 character, and kill everyone in Sovyn. That should make things fair. :)

A little more seriously, Sovyn should suck a nut, cause that was fucking rediculous.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Axhinde
So, basically House Sovyn is a "Good Citizen" Mafia of sorts.

Of sorts. The prime tenet of Sovyn is to assist anyone who needs it. No member is allowed to refuse without some major factors to counter it.

That's not to say every empath must heal anyone who needs it however. Supplying someone with enough acantha leaf to keep them from bleeding to death while they get to town would count. A cleric summoning another to raise a body needing it would also count.

In any case, to take knowledge from here and use it is pretty poor.

Raven
(founder of Sovyn)

[SpunGirl]

Pretty fucking lame. If they thought they'd shame you into apologizing and promising to reform, Wezas, they were clearly wrong. Haha on them and I'll throw in a "pwned" as well.

-K

[Kainen]

Originally posted by Artha

That is utter bullshit.. to warn you in a U2U here.. fuck them then.. thats all I got to say. Checking out shit about people exploiting bugs is ONE thing.. but to use this place for IG stuff is just lame as HELL.

You seem to be under the impression that House Sovyn is run by Brauden. This isn't the case.

Exactly where did I say or insinuate that? I don't believe I mentioned anyone OR any situation.. just my opinion.

[Wezas]

As Raven said, part of their bylaws is that you need to help anyone who asks - unless they are rude/hurt you.

I hold no ill will towards Sovyn or it's members. If they saw me do it in game and spoke with me in game about it - then I would accept it and talk it over with them.

Needless to say, I'm joining Silvergate tomorrow if I can find out what time the inductions are. Unless there is some other house I can join within the next few days (open for recommendations if anyone is a member or especially an officer).

My locker comment has more to do with my lack of time in game. I have fought in the Gladiator Games for Sovyn and have been around for a few tours and meetings. I just don't have the time to be an active member - so for the most part the house is only used for a locker.

[Parkbandit]

That just goes to show you that some people take the game a bit too seriously. If they are taking things from an OOC platform and bringing into the game as if their character knows this information somehow shows their inability to actually roleplay.

You are better off without them Wezas.

[HarmNone]

Wezas, you might want to check with the Silvergate people to see if there's a waiting period (after you leave a house) before you can join Silvergate. I think some of the houses used to have something like that in their charters. Just a heads up so you can check it out. :)

[Wezas]

Originally posted by HarmNone
Wezas, you might want to check with the Silvergate people to see if there's a waiting period (after you leave a house) before you can join Silvergate. I think some of the houses used to have something like that in their charters. Just a heads up so you can check it out. :)

Appreciate it. I still need to find out what time tomorrow.

Also, Edine - as far back as I remember that was the charter.


All members shall adhere to the following guidelines: A reasonable effort will be made to assist any seriously injured or deceased person to prevent a deterioration in their current condition and prepare them for a return to a healthful living condition. Seriously injured means bleeding wounds that will lead to death if not addressed. Deterioration in their current condition means death for the seriously injured and decomposition for the deceased. Obviously, if the person is under the care of another empath/cleric, no assistance is required. Members are not required to stay at gathering places such as the main gate or our healing area even if there are seriously wounded or deceased persons present if there are other empath/clerics there to provide assistance. It is not expected that a member shall run throughout the lands looking for those in need of help (though they may choose to).

For the seriously injured, assistance is not required to those who are not cooperating with the provider of that assistance. Non-cooperation would include the injured running away, physically assaulting or abusing the House member while they attempt to provide assistance. Abuse shall consist of, but is not limited to, acts such as punching, kicking, slapping, etc. Assistance is also not required if the injured or deceased asks not to be assisted by the House member.

It would be unreasonable for an empath/cleric to take actions that are likely to result in the empath/cleric's death to provide such assistance. An empath is not expected to heal when their current health is so poor that its life threatening and a cleric is not expected to restore life when their current life spirit is insufficient. It would also be considered unreasonable to tend a wounded person in the field in an area where the creatures present would kill the empath/cleric if they put their weapon and shield away to bandage the person.

A reasonable effort is defined as the actions needed to prevent immediate deterioration and, if not fully healed of serious injuries or restored to life, create a situation that the empath/cleric believes will result in them getting the required level of care before their condition deteriorates. Reasonable efforts would include tending a seriously injured person in the field so that they have sufficient time to return to town for full treatment or life keeping a deceased person in the field and leaving the deceased in the care of a friend who will drag the deceased to town for full treatment.

Enforcement is the responsibility of the House officers, who would only act in the face of overwhelming evidence indicating a gross violation of the spirit of the charter.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by HarmNone
I think some of the houses used to have something like that in their charters.

That used to be a rule not of individual Houses but a requirement imposed on the Houses if I remember right. There is, or was, a one month waiting period before switching. Things might be different now, of course. It's been a very long time since I was an officer.

Raven

[Edited on 11-21-2004 by Ravenstorm]

[Adhara]

In your shoes I wouldn't even wait for them to kick me out. I would want nothing to do with a house with officers acting like that. During my first year of playing I was dying to get Adhara into Sovyn. Today I am glad I never did.

[Izalude]

I think we're all dying to know who this officer is.

[HarmNone]

I don't remember the particulars, either, Raven. I do recall a friend of mine wanting to change houses, but having to wait for some period of time before he could do so. That could present a problem if you've got a very full locker. :scared:

Of course, you could always get friends to hold onto your stuff in their lockers. :)

I wonder when I will get kicked out then. Edine has always raised at his own desire.

[Wezas]

I would edit your last post to remove any statements that could get you removed, Edine. They're obviously watching the boards.

[Brattt8525]

Sunday 6pm to 7pm Pacific time (9pm-10pm Eastern).

I looked over the requirements but didn't see anything about having to have been "houseless" for any amount of time. The only requirement I did see was being at least 5 trains, I think you have that one covered.

http://www.silvergate.org/

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Brattt8525
Sunday 6pm to 7pm Pacific time (9pm-10pm Eastern).

I looked over the requirements but didn't see anything about having to have been "houseless" for any amount of time. The only requirement I did see was being at least 5 trains, I think you have that one covered.

http://www.silvergate.org/

Thank you Bratt.

Originally posted by Wezas
I would edit your last post to remove any statements that could get you removed, Edine. They're obviously watching the boards.

Now now do you think it really matters that much to me, its not like I am ever in the game anyways

[Caiylania]

Brigatta is a lot of fun to be in. The officers are a riot and we have a pretty active mailing list for information and chats. Just fyi if you are interested.

[Silent_Willy]

Originally posted by Brattt8525
Sunday 6pm to 7pm Pacific time (9pm-10pm Eastern).

I looked over the requirements but didn't see anything about having to have been "houseless" for any amount of time. The only requirement I did see was being at least 5 trains, I think you have that one covered.

http://www.silvergate.org/

There is a waiting period after you quit one House, and want to join another House. It's one of the first rules for a CHE. 90 days, or 45 days or something. Either way you can't quit tomorrow and be in another House the next day.

[Wezas]

Well everything from my locker fit in 4 large backpacks so I'm ready to move on.

[Ilvane]

I can't believe on board things are getting you booted from an in character house. That's pretty darned stupid.

I could understand if they had witnessed it personally, but they didn't..that's just nuts.

-A

[HarmNone]

I don't know that it has gotten him booted yet, Ilvane. From what he posted, they just want to talk about the issue. If I were Wezas, I'd be glad to talk (and let them listen) about bringing OOC stuff into the game!:devil:

[Chelle]

The officer should be demoted since he/she is being blatantly OOC. It is so wrong to take board issues into game. Also I am curious to know if said officer has had something said against them here? I am curious as to who it is too.

[RiverRat]

I guess it really involves to what extent do you view CHEs as being IG versus OOG. Certainly, its never a cool thing to bring stuff out of game, into game. However, I find it commendable to an extent that an officer is that dedicated to upkeeping the moral views of their house (unless said officer just has a chip on his or her shoulder concerning the originator of this thread). Its just too bad they couldn't have found a more appropiate manner in which to do so.

[Miss X]

So glad I did not join Sovyn, whoever sent you the U2U really should not be an officer. I can't believe that they would question something that was mentioned on a message board, talk about taking a text game WAY too seriously.

You know what? Fuck you, Sovyn. OOC bastards. You shouldn't even be an official house. You guys are a worthless band of shits for this. Worthless house. Go eat chocolate you fucking Empaths.

- Arkans

[The Cat In The Hat]

Originally posted by Arkans
You know what? Fuck you, Sovyn. OOC bastards. You shouldn't even be an official house. You guys are a worthless band of shits for this. Worthless house. Go eat chocolate you fucking Empaths.

- Arkans

And how do you really feel?

:cow:

- Arkans

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by RiverRat
I guess it really involves to what extent do you view CHEs as being IG versus OOG. Certainly, its never a cool thing to bring stuff out of game, into game. However, I find it commendable to an extent that an officer is that dedicated to upkeeping the moral views of their house (unless said officer just has a chip on his or her shoulder concerning the originator of this thread). Its just too bad they couldn't have found a more appropiate manner in which to do so.

CHE's are supposed to be IC. Since they have zero IC knowledge of Wezas not healing someone.. it makes them pathetic in my eyes to take from an OOC medium such as these message boards.

It's not even close in my opinion.

[CrystalTears]

Wow, that's just lame. I hope it wasn't who I think it is. Makes me almost want to get back in the game just to quit the house. That was just wrong.

[Back]

I understand the argument, Weezie. And really, its just a board, and just a game, and all that. It does sucketh.

Since I’ve activated a trial account in GS, I’ve found its just really not about RP anymore. I know there are people here and there who try to keep that RP dream alive, but most in GS just don’t.

An example. I was telling some Titled Lady to stop risking my life by picking boxes in IceMule TC. The response I got was, “These boxes are 50 trains under me.” So I was like, alright, screw the rp and said she could fumble. Then I get, “Talk to the gods because my locksmith mastery needs to have people watching and no one is at the well.”

So in summation... I guess I am saying, fuck-em and its only a game.

[RiverRat]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

CHE's are supposed to be IC. Since they have zero IC knowledge of Wezas not healing someone.. it makes them pathetic in my eyes to take from an OOC medium such as these message boards.

It's not even close in my opinion.

My point was that in many in game organizations it can take a lot out of OOG work to run and operate them. From communicating people on one thing to discussing something with them from another. I seriously doubt any CHE or PRO has ever been run without at least one IM or Email or even OOC whisper to help do one thing or another.

Therefore, the officer who might have been quite use to organizing and running things from an OOG viewpoint just got carried away and saw this as one more priority that could be dealt with in the same way. Did I saw it was a good thing? I didn't. But I don't fault someone for cracking down on someone else for perceived violation of rules, just for the way they did it.

[CrystalTears]

Well yes, people use OOC media to communicate and distribute information. However to make allegations against a character for information found said half-assed on a message board does not constitute enough reason to want to ban them.

The notification was done through the boards, and not in an official way through email or the game, so that's strike two. I don't blame Wezas for nipping it in the bud and leaving.

[Wezas]

The funny thing is, the only RPA I've ever received was a two nights ago - when I refused to heal a dirt elf in TSC. I haven't been in game much recently and have basically done nothing recently (except for the dueling) so it wasn't for some prior goodness.

Just my character doing something that the GM's approved of as Roleplaying.

[Ravenstorm]

OOC and IC problems aside, I'm just wondering why anyone wants to join a House whose rules they don't agree with. If you're not going to follow the charter, why not just pick another in the first place?

Raven

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
OOC and IC problems aside, I'm just wondering why anyone wants to join a House whose rules they don't agree with. If you're not going to follow the charter, why not just pick another in the first place?

Raven

When I first joined - my char didn't have this opinion of dirt elves. It evolved a few years ago. I guess I should have left the house at that point.

[Souzy]

Wow...how retarded. I would expect it from a random player. But, if someone who's running something IG would take shit from here, ummm...yeah, just retarded. Going back to finish my drink now. They suck and are full of :shit:

[Drew2]

Reason #931 why House Sovyn is retarded.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Should post who it was Wezas. You know the PC rules. It's meaningless without a name to flame!

[peam]

Originally posted by Wezas
Needless to say, I'm joining Silvergate tomorrow if I can find out what time the inductions are. Unless there is some other house I can join within the next few days (open for recommendations if anyone is a member or especially an officer).


Pauper's does inductions on Monday nights, if I remember correctly.

[SpunGirl]

I agree with SHM.

-K

[Joe]

http://www.play.net/gs4/info/greathouses/#membership

30 days between houses.

<shrugs>

[Marl]

Originally posted by Caiylania
Brigatta is a lot of fun to be in. The officers are a riot and we have a pretty active mailing list for information and chats. Just fyi if you are interested.

Damn Right :D

[Caramia]

When you leave one house, you need to wait 30 days before joining another... at least that's what happened when I transferred out a few years ago when some of the newer Houses opened up.

If you think you're being dealt with unfairly, you could always email GM Soraya, the House Controller, and tell her that you think the officer of Sovyn is using OOC reasons to expel you.

[Myitkyina]

wow...

I've been watching this thread for a couple days now, and I've read all the posts to date. Interesting (though perhaps not surprising) that everyone's quick to jump in with an extreme opinion having heard only one side of the debate.

Well, responding as an individual, and not as a Sovyn officer, a few things you might want to consider:

1. All we've asked is that Wezas meet with us. The only reason there's even talk of expelling is that it's the third or fourth request at this point, and he hasn't responded to any of them in an IC way... though we can tell from these boards that he's receiving them.

2. There's no mention in the letter of what the evidence is. Wezas is assuming it comes from these boards, and everyone else here seems quick to make that assumption too. Isn't it conceivable that if his actions are earning him role-playing awards in TSC that we might have heard about them through other channels? Of course, it wouldn't be proper to discuss the allegations or evidence here, but the officers would be happy to discuss it with Wezas if he would meet with us.

3. Sovyn is a great house, with hardworking and devoted officers. As Wezas himself notes, the charter does impose restrictions on members' healing and raising practices. Members are carefully screened for this prior to being inducted. If members change their position on these charter issues, they should resign, in my opinion, or work to get the charter changed. Other houses have their own restrictions, but there are plenty of houses that offer locker space and quite a few that don't place many demands on members.

4. I don't remember who sent out that letter, but I can tell you it doesn't really matter. It may have been signed by an officer, but it was approved at an officers' meeting. That doesn't change the fact that most correspondence is sent out by one of the chairs or one of the secretaries. We're not ruled by some authoritarian dictator but tend to make decisions in as consensual a process as possible. So, if you feel we need to be held accountable, hold us all accountable, and Sovyn's members too, for having elected us.

-Myitkyina

[Adhara]

Originally posted by Myitkyina
2. There's no mention in the letter of what the evidence is. Wezas is assuming it comes from these boards, and everyone else here seems quick to make that assumption too. Isn't it conceivable that if his actions are earning him role-playing awards in TSC that we might have heard about them through other channels? Of course, it wouldn't be proper to discuss the allegations or evidence here, but the officers would be happy to discuss it with Wezas if he would meet with us.


Are you just insinuating that the evidence is IC to save the face of your House or is there really IC evidence? If so why not just come out and say "there is IC evidence and we can readily show proof of it" and clear it up for us?

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Myitkyina

1. All we've asked is that Wezas meet with us. The only reason there's even talk of expelling is that it's the third or fourth request at this point, and he hasn't responded to any of them in an IC way... though we can tell from these boards that he's receiving them.

Where are the posts that enable you to come to that conclusion? Seriously ... I'd like to see reposts or links.

I've looked, but he's such a post whore ... I can't find them.


2. There's no mention in the letter of what the evidence is. Wezas is assuming it comes from these boards, and everyone else here seems quick to make that assumption too. Isn't it conceivable that if his actions are earning him role-playing awards in TSC that we might have heard about them through other channels? Of course, it wouldn't be proper to discuss the allegations or evidence here, but the officers would be happy to discuss it with Wezas if he would meet with us.

Wezas certainly isn't the shy type and he's never struck me as a person that feels the need to hide his in-game actions. I can understand wanting to meet him in game, but why be shy about what it actually is?


3. Sovyn is a great house, with hardworking and devoted officers. As Wezas himself notes, the charter does impose restrictions on members' healing and raising practices. Members are carefully screened for this prior to being inducted.

I'm sorry, but this made me laugh.

In your opinion it's a great house, just remember it is your opinion.

Careful screening my fucking ass. Sovyn has been home to the biggest vulturing script healing whores in the game. Sovyn, like every other house, is home to some of the biggest idiots in game as well. Don't feed us the screening crap. If this were remotely true, Sovyn would have expelled lots of other characters before even considering expelling Wezers.


4. I don't remember who sent out that letter, but I can tell you it doesn't really matter.

Yes, it does matter.


It may have been signed by an officer, but it was approved at an officers' meeting. That doesn't change the fact that most correspondence is sent out by one of the chairs or one of the secretaries. We're not ruled by some authoritarian dictator but tend to make decisions in as consensual a process as possible. So, if you feel we need to be held accountable, hold us all accountable, and Sovyn's members too, for having elected us.

That's just idiotic logic. For all we know there could be a few jackass officers and the rest are nothing but sheep that nod the head and kiss the ass. You don't hold voters responsible for the people that won the popularity contest ... you hold the people that won the popularity contest responsible.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I still don't get the need to U2U for an in game thing. Contact him in game.

[Drew2]

LET'S RIDE BIKES!!!!!

[Parkbandit]

The evidence is:

"Someone saw Wezas deny someone healing sometime a while ago. While we cannot mention names, it is clear that this is in violation of our charter. We will be asking for our healing scripts back now. Have a nice day."

[Wezas]

Myit - you know I have respect for you - we were friends for quite a while (I just haven't seen you in a bit).


All we've asked is that Wezas meet with us.

Over something you read on a message board. Something OOC that was brought IC. If my character would say "I don't heal rangers" on OOC chat (psinet) would that be taken in game as well?


Wezas is assuming it comes from these boards, and everyone else here seems quick to make that assumption too.

Subject: Unsettling post
From: Mikare
To: Wezas
Sent: 9-5-2004 at 06:00 PM
Message: We need to talk.

Check Mikare's posts in this thread (where I talked about not healing a person):
http://forum.gsplayers.com/viewthread.php?tid=8822

Note his reply on ..... 9-5-04 at 6pm????

And you're telling me that this isn't taken from this boards is total BS.


As for me resigning from Sovyn earlier - Yes, I probably should have. And I definately will be now.

[Parkbandit]

Pwned by U2Us and posts.

There goes any validity to Myitkyina's post.

People should learn NOT to fuck with long standing members of the PC.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

In the immortal words of Yoda.

PWNED, you are.

[CrystalTears]

I KNEW that's who it was.

That was so wrong, Mikare. Good lord, woman. I like you, but that was lame, hon.

[Wezas]

Totally unrelated:

http://members.cox.net/legendwezas/myit.jpg

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by Wezas
Subject: Unsettling post
From: Mikare
To: Wezas
Sent: 9-5-2004 at 06:00 PM
Message: We need to talk.

Check Mikare's posts in this thread (where I talked about not healing a person):
http://forum.gsplayers.com/viewthread.php?tid=8822

Note his reply on ..... 9-5-04 at 6pm????

And you're telling me that this isn't taken from this boards is total BS.


As for me resigning from Sovyn earlier - Yes, I probably should have. And I definately will be now.

Let me add my voice to the resounding chorus of "pwnz0rated." Also, I'm curious how people can "take" scripts back.

-K

[SiKWiDiT]

Originally posted by SpunGirl

Let me add my voice to the resounding chorus of "pwnz0rated." Also, I'm curious how people can "take" scripts back.

-K

That was sarcasm.

[SpunGirl]

Ahh. Hard to grasp after a ten hour shift, thanks:)

-K

[Myitkyina]

yeah, Wezas, you know I've always been fond of you... Though I can't say that finding out you've been stealing from me all this time warms my heart any (though it also doesn't surprise me).

As for the evidence, I honestly don't remember what it was--this has been going on for so long, and I wasn't directly involved in this case. I do know that many of the officers (me included) are committed to not bringing OOG stuff in game. However, we often rely on OOG methods for contacting people, including emails, Psinet, U2Us, IMs and chatrooms. I don't think this is uncommon for groups in game--if we just waited to bump into people in game, we'd never get anything done.


-Myitkyina

[SpunGirl]

Uh, I don't think there's a way to spin that u2u, Myitkyina. I think it's nice that you're loyal to your house and all, but if you're vague on the details, why both posting about it in the first place?

Like you said, the officers have been trying to contact Wezas for some time (u2u dated over two months ago). And the subject of the u2u doesn't say, "contact us," and the body doesn't say, "this is just another attempt to get in touch with you." It says it's over a POST. It doesn't get much clearer than that.

-K

[CrystalTears]

So are you saying that you condone that people use OOC means to find out information, take it for face value, and take action from it? So does that mean that if an officer heard a member make a comment such as against the house, or not doing something according to the rules of the house in IMs or on PsiNet, that it's enough to take action against a character?

Talk about gestapo feelings in the house.

[Wezas]

Contact from Sovyn about any issues with me prior to 9/5/04 = nill

"As for the evidence, I honestly don't remember what it was--this has been going on for so long, and I wasn't directly involved in this case."

As for the evidence, there is none. Sovyn is relying on my post as their evidence.

If you had evidence - please, post a log. I don't even care who the log belongs to. If someone came forward with accusations
about me - they damn well better have had a log.

Are you trying to say that if I had not posted that message on 9/5 - that you would have still tried to contact me? Mikare's been registered since '03. I have my AIM *and* my E-mail at the bottom of every single post here. Until August - I was in the game pretty regularly - it wouldn't have been that hard to find me.

Could you please remove me from House Sovyn - I have been looking through the info on play.net and haven't found any instructions on how to leave a house (let alone leave one that has taken OOG matters IG)

You have my permission to remove me from House Sovyn. I'll leave the pin in the barrel in TSE.

[Adhara]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
[...]but if you're vague on the details, why bother posting about it in the first place?

My thoughts exactly. If you suggest there's other evidence, be ready to show it. You lose all credibility by saying there's definitely other evidence but you don't remember exactly what. If it has been going on for as long as you suggest, why wait until that particular post?

Scenario 1:
Wezas refuses to heal someone. It is brought to the attention of House officiers who start trying to reach him, unsuccessfully, over a rather long period of time. One day, Wezas posts on the PC about not healing someone. Coincidentally, minutes later is when they finally, after all this time, get hold of him about the matter.

Scenario 2:
They read a post saying he refused to heal, decide to take action based on that post and U2U him right away about it.

Now, none of us here are mathematicians but without throwing numbers, how would you quantify the probable likelyhood of secnario 2 being closer to the truth?

[Carcinogen Crunchies]

You guys act like this is your business. It seems to me that it's between Wezas and Sovyn.

I'm also not sure how this is a lesson in not fucking with members of the PC. I'm sure the membership of Sovyn is really broken up about the situation and cares deeply what the PC thinks.

Lastly, you need to be present to be expelled from a house, as detailed here. http://www.play.net/gs4/info/greathouses/#expulsion

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Carcinogen Crunchies
You guys act like this is your business. It seems to me that it's between Wezas and Sovyn. Anyone bringing OOC matters in game is bad for the game, true or false?

Therefore, those of us who still play the game (which admittedly isn't everyone) have every right to be concerned about an institution that is bad for the game.

If this had been a private matter between Wezas and the House, and someone else (let's say Tayre) posted it, then it would be improper. However, it's pretty clear who started this thread.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Carcinogen Crunchies
You guys act like this is your business. It seems to me that it's between Wezas and Sovyn.

I posted in a public forum a complaint about something, which I have the right to do. The members here voiced their opinions as well. This isn't the official boards, there are no *rules* about complaining. If you don't like the drama - there's dozens of other threads here to look at. Or you could go to Klaive's, there's 2's of threads to look at there.


I'm also not sure how this is a lesson in not fucking with members of the PC. I'm sure the membership of Sovyn is really broken up about the situation and cares deeply what the PC thinks.

I believe the situation is - the staff member from Sovyn was trying to convince the people here that they had hard evidence and that this message board had nothing to do with it. That was proven wrong when the U2U from an officer was on the same day (same hour) as a post in the thread that I started. Both of which I have proof of.


Lastly, you need to be present to be expelled from a house, as detailed here. http://www.play.net/gs4/info/greathouses/#expulsion

Well then someone tell me how to resign, because I want out as soon as possible.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
If this had been a private matter between Wezas and the House, and someone else (let's say Tayre) posted it, then it would be improper.

Excellent example, Latrinsorm. Especially the person who might have posted it.

[Drew2]

Shut up.

[Skeeter]

They tried to kick me out of a house once.

Fight the power!

[Parkbandit]

Wezas.. give me a list of members from that house before you leave. I'll do what they do and take information from the message boards and use it as "roleplaying" in game.

I'll simply highlight all their names in bright orange to steal from them whenever I see them.

Since it seems to be ok for them.. I imagine they would have little problem with it being a two way street.

:D

[Wezas]

http://sovyn.com/MemberListing/MemberListing.asp

Have at it. Officers are also listed.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Wezas.. give me a list of members from that house before you leave. I'll do what they do and take information from the message boards and use it as "roleplaying" in game.

I'll simply highlight all their names in bright orange to steal from them whenever I see them.

Since it seems to be ok for them.. I imagine they would have little problem with it being a two way street.

:D

Don't forget to demand healing, since it's a requirement.

[CrystalTears]

Heh, my empath is still on that list. Inactive, but still on it. I was inches from playing again then thought against it, especially with Falgrin on the loose and my empath normally in the landing. No fanks. :P

[Carcinogen Crunchies]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

I'll simply highlight all their names in bright orange to steal from them whenever I see them.

Of course. Since, you know, it's the fault of every individual member that you don't like how the house operates.

[Mikare]

I am going to post this knowing that this is a matter between Sovyn and Wezas. Yes, Wezas has chosen to take it public, though he did not give all the facts.

At any time that a member comes to an officer with concerns that they are not following the charter and the standards of House Sovyn, it is incumbent upon the officers of the House to investigate.

The members and officers of House Sovyn should expect this in order to maintain the integrity of the House.

The source(s) of any allegation(s) is taken into consideration and each complaint is handled on an individual basis and privately to protect both the accused and the accuser.

I wrote the letter that Wezas posted, so if you have a problem either here or ingame, please direct it to me.

Mikare,
Chair, House Sovyn
AIM=SistMikare

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Carcinogen Crunchies

Originally posted by Parkbandit

I'll simply highlight all their names in bright orange to steal from them whenever I see them.

Of course. Since, you know, it's the fault of every individual member that you don't like how the house operates.

Perhaps he's right.

Highlight the officers in a different color from other members.

[KymberlynX]

I say highlight them ALL, demand healing from them all the time, and don't tip them or say thank you. Actually, I would be more inclined to do the exact opposite and not give them any learning off my wounds ever.

Bringing anything from OOC to IG regardless of your intentions is fucking lame.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Carcinogen Crunchies
You guys act like this is your business. It seems to me that it's between Wezas and Sovyn.

I'm also not sure how this is a lesson in not fucking with members of the PC. I'm sure the membership of Sovyn is really broken up about the situation and cares deeply what the PC thinks.

Lastly, you need to be present to be expelled from a house, as detailed here. http://www.play.net/gs4/info/greathouses/#expulsion


This member of Sovyn is watching this thread carefully, so don't assume that no one cares.

[Adhara]

Nice post Mikare. Very well worded, sounds professional and all.


But.


What exactly does it say that's pertinent to this situation? I read a lot of words but I didn't see anything other than the general speech a journalist would get from a lawyer.

This situation might be, on the first level, between Wezas and Sovyn. He chose to make it public and because of this, we, the public, discover valuable information about the way officers (one or many) operate this House. As the player of a cleric who once wanted to join Sovyn, I believe this information was worth making public. I am certainly happy I learned about it. You too hint at, if not evidence, supplementary information that was not disclosed. You too choose to still withhold it from us. I suppose it's your prerogative but I'll tell you something. If someone was making my House look bad and I knew I held proof that there are false (by omission or not) allegations taking place, I sure wouldn't keep that to myself. I would disclose it for all to see so that the "integrity" of my House would be preserved.

[Chelle]

What a shameful way for a house to operate.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Carcinogen Crunchies

Originally posted by Parkbandit

I'll simply highlight all their names in bright orange to steal from them whenever I see them.

Of course. Since, you know, it's the fault of every individual member that you don't like how the house operates.

Actually, I was being sarcastic as to how the house was using this message board as a method of collecting information.

[Nithili]

As another one of the Sovyn officers I felt the need to post.

Its sad that this is so out of hand that we need to defend ourselves. But let me explain the circumstances underwhich this occured.

The post was seen by a member and brought to our attention. Since it was in such gross disregard for the charter we decided to talk to Wezas about it. Simple as that.

IC we explained this as the house hearing rumor from local citizens. We were not planning to expel him, we just wanted to discuss the "rumors" with him. We weren't even expecting it to come to expulsion, we just hoped to get his side of things.

I agree that OOG info shouldn't be used in game, but since we were just trying to get communication between the officers and the member we didn't feel it would be too out of line. I realize now and have learned this wasn't the right way to go about it, and will never happen again if I have anything to do with it.

I think "blacklisting"/stealing from/etc. Sovyn members is completely unwarrented though. Especially since it would be doing excatly what many are upset about - taking OOG info into game.

Thanks for listening.

~Nithili

[Edited on 11-23-2004 by Nithili]

[Wezas]

It is over, nothing to see here people.

Mikare raises her hands and makes a mystic gesture at you. You feel a tug at your soul, as if a part of you has been torn away. A few moments later you sense the thoughts of the Clerk, "Thou hast been expelled from thy House!"

As everyone (there were 3 - including a dirt elf!) was professional in the expulsion/explination ceremony - I will not post a log of the event. I will simply say that both sides did things that weren't the most wise thing to do. I did not receive any proof of a member stepping forward - but they insisted that there was.

I am looking to join Paupers in 4 weeks - and in the mean time spending who knows how much cash on the moot hall lockers.

[Edited on 11-23-2004 by Wezas]

[Wezas]

Nithili - I truely believe that Parkbandit made the statement to be amusing - as was my reply intended.

I hold no ill will towards Sovyn's member base.

[Meges]

Originally posted by Nithili
As another one of the Sovyn officers I felt the need to post.

Its sad that this is so out of hand that we need to defend ourselves. But let me explain the circumstances underwhich this occured.

The post was seen by a member and brought to our attention. Since it was in such gross disregard for the charter we decided to talk to Wezas about it. Simple as that.

IC we explained this as the house hearing rumor from local citizens. We were not planning to expel him, we just wanted to discuss the "rumors" with him. We weren't even expecting it to come to expulsion, we just hoped to get his side of things.

I agree that OOG info shouldn't be used in game, but since we were just trying to get communication between the officers and the member we didn't feel it would be too out of line. I realize now and have learned this wasn't the right way to go about it, and will never happen again if I have anything to do with it.

I think "blacklisting"/stealing from/etc. Sovyn members is completely unwarrented though. Especially since it would be doing excatly what many are upset about - taking OOG info into game.

Thanks for listening.

~Nithili

[Edited on 11-23-2004 by Nithili]

Like Sovyn's officers, all of my very well skilled rogues just recently heard "in-game, in-genre, and in-character" rumors that those same officers are in need of having their pockets lightened. You might be sorry, but the damage is already done.

Meges

PS I'm looking forward to seeing you all.

[Kainen]

Originally posted by Nithili
As another one of the Sovyn officers I felt the need to post.

The post was seen by a member and brought to our attention. Since it was in such gross disregard for the charter we decided to talk to Wezas about it. Simple as that.

IC we explained this as the house hearing rumor from local citizens. We were not planning to expel him, we just wanted to discuss the "rumors" with him. We weren't even expecting it to come to expulsion, we just hoped to get his side of things.

I agree that OOG info shouldn't be used in game, but since we were just trying to get communication between the officers and the member we didn't feel it would be too out of line.

I think "blacklisting"/stealing from/etc. Sovyn members is completely unwarrented though. Especially since it would be doing excatly what many are upset about - taking OOG info into game.

Thanks for listening.

~Nithili

[Edited on 11-23-2004 by Nithili]


1) Nithili JUST admitted that they used OOG info to "talk" to Wezas
2) Nithili, while saying that they didnt think it was good to use OOG info.. did anyways
3) Nithili NOW says that stealing from the Soyvn House people over this is OOG and not good..

Anyone else see the hypocracy here?
Yes I realize the issue is over with however it does strike me as odd that an IG society would use OOG information.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Nithili
The post was seen by a member and brought to our attention. Since it was in such gross disregard for the charter we decided to talk to Wezas about it. Simple as that.

Wow, the officers sure took care of that matter fast between the time that Wezas posted the comment that he wasn't healing, to the time that Mikare U2Ued him requesting to talk about his actions. You guys are really good. /sarcasm :rolleyes:

Edited to add: Nevermind. I went back and saw the thread where Wezas posted the healing log and Mikare bumping the two week old thread to make a commenting post AFTER she U2Ued him. I still think it was approached the wrong way.

[Edited on 11/23/2004 by CrystalTears]

[Caramia]

Originally posted by Nithili
The post was seen by a member and brought to our attention. Since it was in such gross disregard for the charter we decided to talk to Wezas about it. Simple as that.

IC we explained this as the house hearing rumor from local citizens. We were not planning to expel him, we just wanted to discuss the "rumors" with him. We weren't even expecting it to come to expulsion, we just hoped to get his side of things.


That still doesn't erase the fact that someone took something out of game and made it an in-game issue.

[upright]

Oh? So doing something wrong in game and posting it here is okay? And it unable to be used just because it is here? That is ridiculous. That does not make it unusable by doing so. If anything, the person posting here said they don't wish to keep it confidential. Hence, they opened the door.

Likewise, Officers respect the confidentiality of all involved so no one can be unfairly targetted. This also allows us to sort out the charges and prove or disprove them. If disproved, only the time to uphold the charter and the investigation was lost. If proved, the integrity of the House was upheld.

I will not say anything else on this. Merely that you cannot have a double standard, which is what you have set on these boards.

Joter

[Nithili]

Originally posted by Caramia

That still doesn't erase the fact that someone took something out of game and made it an in-game issue.

Yup. I've explained my whys, and it won't happen again. I think this issue is done.

~Nithili

[KymberlynX]

Originally posted by upright
Oh? So doing something wrong in game and posting it here is okay? And it unable to be used just because it is here? That is ridiculous. That does not make it unusable by doing so. If anything, the person posting here said they don't wish to keep it confidential. Hence, they opened the door.

Likewise, Officers respect the confidentiality of all involved so no one can be unfairly targetted. This also allows us to sort out the charges and prove or disprove them. If disproved, only the time to uphold the charter and the investigation was lost. If proved, the integrity of the House was upheld.

I will not say anything else on this. Merely that you cannot have a double standard, which is what you have set on these boards.

Joter

:wtf:

How does any of what you just said make sense??? If I told someone in IM's that they are a dumbass and their character came up to mine and started shit because of what I said to them in AIM it's no better than what the house did to Wezas about something he mentioned here.

[upright]

Your reply is off topic. I am talking solely about discussing it on a public message board. IM's are private, unless the person posts them, of course.

Joter

[upright]

I said all I am going to on this.

Joter

[Brattt8525]

Originally posted by upright
Oh? So doing something wrong in game and posting it here is okay? And it unable to be used just because it is here? That is ridiculous. That does not make it unusable by doing so. If anything, the person posting here said they don't wish to keep it confidential. Hence, they opened the door.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ok this made no sense. The GAME is supposed to be RP'ed. RL is just that REAL LIFE. Of course I can take something from the game, and talk about it here, seeing as I am real and I play my character. Now if I take something from RL IE the board into the game, that is wrong because my character wouldn't have this RL info.

[Wezas]

Speaking to you, Jooble asks, "Can you heal me, sir?"

>look joob
You see Jooble the Paladin.
He appears to be a Dwarf.

You nod to Jooble.

You meditate over Jooble.
Jooble's left arm damage is transferred to you.

Jooble whispers, "Promise im not a dirt elf."

You grin at Jooble.
Speaking to you, Jooble says, "Thanks."
Jooble belches.
Jooble sits down.

You quietly whisper to Jooble, "I checked, just to make sure."
You wink at Jooble.
Jooble grunts, amused.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by upright
I said all I am going to on this.

Joter

You said that after the first post.

[Meges]

Originally posted by upright
Oh? So doing something wrong in game and posting it here is okay? And it unable to be used just because it is here? That is ridiculous. That does not make it unusable by doing so. If anything, the person posting here said they don't wish to keep it confidential. Hence, they opened the door.

Likewise, Officers respect the confidentiality of all involved so no one can be unfairly targetted. This also allows us to sort out the charges and prove or disprove them. If disproved, only the time to uphold the charter and the investigation was lost. If proved, the integrity of the House was upheld.

I will not say anything else on this. Merely that you cannot have a double standard, which is what you have set on these boards.

Joter

Joter, you sound just as dumb and make about as much sense as you do when you post as Host/Moderator Quabu on the official boards. Go back there and hide behind your TOC.

Meges

Wait.. are the people in Sovyn brain damaged? You guys do realize that this is an OOC forum, right? Which characters saw this happening? How would they know if this actually happened? OH SHIT YOU WOULDN'T. Good RP Sovyn, oh, and fuck you, while I'm at it.

- Arkans

[Wezas]

I thank Nithili for her honesty and admitting that Sovyn's actions weren't the smartest play.

I wish more of the Sovyn staff felt that way.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by upright
I said all I am going to on this.

Joter

Wise move, because you aren't making much sense. :nutty:

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Nithili

Yup. I've explained my whys, and it won't happen again. I think this issue is done.

~Nithili

Thank you for demonstrating that there's one officer who has his/her wits about them.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Nithili
The post was seen by a member and brought to our attention. Since it was in such gross disregard for the charter we decided to talk to Wezas about it. Simple as that.

Rephrase that to officer ... like it makes a difference.

posted on 9-5-2004 at 05:06 PM Post ID: 232384

Originally posted by Mikare

Originally posted by Wezas

Originally posted by Miss X
Isn't the house sovyn rule that you should never refuse healing unless you are attacked or you are insulted badly? I didn't think about joining for that reason. ;)

Pretty much. If they feel like kicking out a founder - I'll just find another house to be my locker.

I must admit, this is an interesting thread...quite enlightening...but very sad.

Mikare

Any rep that Sovyn had was just flushed by the officers.

[Edited on 11-23-2004 by Tsa`ah]

[Kainen]

Quabu is a jackass.. that's all I have to say about HIM (off topic I know but since dealing with him twice.. I have been DYING to say it)

[Back]

You know... now that this issue is dead, I’ve been thinking more and more about it and... I agree people shouldn’t take things OOG into the game. That is, if I call Stray a fuck head here, he dosen’t come ambush my char for no interaction. We can all agree on that I think.

Through reading these boards about characters and how they behave we get a glimpse into the RP. Its an extension of the characters role played here on these boards. Like, I know Wezas is a big theif just from reading these boards. Whether I want to or not, when I play, I’m going to avoid him even if our characters have never interacted IG. I’m going to avoid Falgrin in the park.

How is this justafiable RP wise? The old rumor mill of the Elanthian public. It could be said there are more people in Elanthia that just our characters, and someone out of that general public passes word around about so and so doing whatever.

We all really on certain OOC means to gain info for our characters that motivate them in certain ways. Take the who list for example. How does your character know all those people are in the game? PSInet’s functions are another.

How Sovyn handled this could have been done better, I agree. But when you come here and show how your character RPs, I think you should realize that its going to have some bering on how people IG are going to view that character, whether its OOC or not, by virtue of extending the RP environment to these boards.

And don’t get me wrong, I was hard core RP for a long time and enjoy that aspect of playing, but GSIV is hardly a bastion of that kind of playing.

[Ilvane]

I'm a pretty hardcore RP person too, and I have to say I'm disappointed that the house would choose to take something from here and use it to discipline a member without actually witnessing it in the game, and taking the issue up there.

I'm not saying that what Wezas did was on charter with Sovyn, but at least have something game based to back things up with. I don't understand coming to these boards and doing it.

-A

[HarmNone]

Kudos, Nithili. You, at least, will admit a boundary was crossed which should not have been crossed. That's commendable. :)

[SiKWiDiT]

How hard do you think it would have been to have someone go and check things out in the game?

Put someone on Wezas, watching to see if the rumors are true. As soon as he refuses service to anyone you confront him and it goes from there, all of it taking place in the game.

The posts and U2U's were not needed, and now a lot more people think House Sovyn is full of more than a couple of jackasses.

[Sean]

Originally posted by Backlash

Through reading these boards about characters and how they behave we get a glimpse into the RP. Its an extension of the characters role played here on these boards. Like, I know Wezas is a big theif just from reading these boards. Whether I want to or not, when I play, I’m going to avoid him even if our characters have never interacted IG. I’m going to avoid Falgrin in the park.

How is this justafiable RP wise? The old rumor mill of the Elanthian public. It could be said there are more people in Elanthia that just our characters, and someone out of that general public passes word around about so and so doing whatever.


Is this really RP or you as a player deciding you don't want to lose a few k? I know it was just 1 example out of many but I personally see that example as the latter.

Anyway, I'm glad Wezas is able to move on and I'm sure Soyvn will as well. As someone who plays a cleric who doesn't raise often I'll never truely understand the house stance in the matter but I'm also curious at the same time without being able to monitor all of their members who situations like this one will be handled in the future?

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Wezas
Nithili - I truely believe that Parkbandit made the statement to be amusing - as was my reply intended.



Exactly. I was being sarcastic and making a point of how stupid it is for Sovyn to take things from this message board and use them in game. It would be just as stupid for me to highlight all the members of Sovyn and purposely seeking them out to steal from them.

Just as stupid... only difference is.. I had no intention of doing it. It's too bad the officers of Sovyn didn't use that type of judgement.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Who is Joter and someone tell him to see a doctor about the stick up his ass.

PS - I demand healing, come heal me, bitches.

Well after recieving this in the mail from the house


Dear Members,

Some of you may or may not know that a situation has arisen with a
House member that may directly effect all members.

Not being at liberty to discuss the matter due to confidentiality of
the parties involved, I do feel that each member needs to be aware
that House Sovyn members may be targeted due to this situation.

If any of you are the recipient of actual PvP that is unexpected or
not consented to, please do not interact with the person(s) but
REPORT and ASSIST immediately.

IF you are asked about the situation, please direct any inquiries to
officers@sovyn.com If you have concerns please do the same or
contact any officer directly.

I apologize for anything that may cause any of you to suffer in any
way for a situation that you have not been a part of.

Thank you,

Mikare & the House Sovyn Officers
Im going to be quitting too... as soon as im not to lazy to go to the landing and empty my locker.


Edit: childish to say the least, I wish for the days when Delyorik was in charge again. I have belonged to the house for many years, with Edine and Saries before him, alas that time has come to an end it seems.


[Edited on 11-23-2004 by Dave]

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

That's rich.

Tayvin says 'Come heal me bitches!'

Sovynscripthealer reports 'OMG, Tayvin is asking for healing, they said I would be persecuted in email! Please ban him. Kthx.'

[Eiderfleur]

Hahahahaha Looks like the only thing Sovyn is gonna get is a hell of a lot less members.

Also it seems from the initial post Mikare might have had something against Wezas, and was merely using this information to expel him from the House.

Glad Eiderfleur is not in House Sovyn.

Anyone know of a good house to join? I've been wanting to join one for a long time but have no idea which ones would be good, fun, I have been invited me to join Dreadnaught and Rone.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Dave
Well after recieving this in the mail from the house


Dear Members,

Some of you may or may not know that a situation has arisen with a
House member that may directly effect all members.

Not being at liberty to discuss the matter due to confidentiality of
the parties involved, I do feel that each member needs to be aware
that House Sovyn members may be targeted due to this situation.

If any of you are the recipient of actual PvP that is unexpected or
not consented to, please do not interact with the person(s) but
REPORT and ASSIST immediately.

IF you are asked about the situation, please direct any inquiries to
officers@sovyn.com If you have concerns please do the same or
contact any officer directly.

I apologize for anything that may cause any of you to suffer in any
way for a situation that you have not been a part of.

Thank you,

Mikare & the House Sovyn Officers


3 words.. Holy fucking shit.

My ego is going to need some deflating pretty soon.. since I am the one that brought this up in the first place. Sure I was kidding and I realize now that there are some people who are too stupid to know sarcasm when they hear it... but I increased their alert level to LEVEL ORANGE!!!

I fucking pwn.

[Edited on 11-23-2004 by Parkbandit]

Mikare so sucks at life.

- Arkans

[Back]

Originally posted by Tijay
Is this really RP or you as a player deciding you don't want to lose a few k? I know it was just 1 example out of many but I personally see that example as the latter.

No, its not RP, its me being smart and avoiding losing money. There is no way in hell you can expect me to look the other way no matter how good of a roleplayer anyone claims to be. You start bringing your characters attitudes and behaviours to these boards you are opening yourself up to scrutiny and problems. Thats what I am saying.

The thief example is perfect. You don’t go around town annoucing you are a thief. You can’t come here and post you are a thief and think people are going to ignore it, and if they don’t, claim they are bad roleplayers. Well, PB would, but you know what I mean.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Backlash

Originally posted by Tijay
Is this really RP or you as a player deciding you don't want to lose a few k? I know it was just 1 example out of many but I personally see that example as the latter.

No, its not RP, its me being smart and avoiding losing money. There is no way in hell you can expect me to look the other way no matter how good of a roleplayer anyone claims to be. You start bringing your characters attitudes and behaviours to these boards you are opening yourself up to scrutiny and problems. Thats what I am saying.

The thief example is perfect. You don’t go around town annoucing you are a thief. You can’t come here and post you are a thief and think people are going to ignore it, and if they don’t, claim they are bad roleplayers. Well, PB would, but you know what I mean.

Not sure if that was a stab at my roleplaying ability or not.. but whatever.

Falgrin is a rather well known thief.. so I would assume you had heard of him prior to these boards. If you are in "his" park.. expect to be stolen from. If you play an ignorant character, expect to be stolen from anywhere. If you have wronged Falgrin in some way.. expect him to seek you out and be stolen from.

Your views on this board has no bearing on how Falgrin would or would not steal from you in the game.

[Sean]

I guess I think its a poor example based on my experiences. For the cost of a couple silvers or gems I've had more fun and well played out experiences than bad. Basically you may think it's smart because you avoid losing money .. I think you happen to be dumb for missing valuable and entertaining situations.

[Back]

I guess what my point is, don’t plaster your characters personal info all over a public board and not expect someone to use it IG. We aren’t all perfect roleplayers.

Again, I think Sovyn could have handled it better, Weezie really should have ditched them when his character changed, and now this issue of IG vs OOG stuff has exploded into something that it really didn’t need to.

But hey, we like drama, flames and impacting the game here at the PC.

[Back]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Your views on this board has no bearing on how Falgrin would or would not steal from you in the game.

Hey, just used you as an example because you stand out. I’ve never worried about how our chars would interact IG.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Backlash

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Your views on this board has no bearing on how Falgrin would or would not steal from you in the game.

Hey, just used you as an example because you stand out. I’ve never worried about how our chars would interact IG.

Oh.. you should be worried.

Muuuaahhaaaaaa!

All your silvers are mine.

[KymberlynX]

Originally posted by upright
Your reply is off topic. I am talking solely about discussing it on a public message board. IM's are private, unless the person posts them, of course.

Joter

:cry: Oh Noez!!!111 Call the post police cuz Joter thinks I'm off topic!

:stfu:

[Adhara]

Wow that letter to Sovyn members left me speechless. Can you say kindergarten? So disappointing.

[CrystalTears]

Gee, why don't they add the part where they were giving someone the possible boot over an OOC issue so that it doesn't seem as one sided as they think it is? :smug:

I've had it with some houses and their officers. They need to get off their high horse.

[Latrinsorm]

Paupers pwns.

[Miss X]

Oh shit! I cannot believe they sent out that email. I'm so glad I joined Whitehaven and not Sovyn, Whitehaven officers are decent and not total morons! :)

[Carcinogen Crunchies]

Get over it.

[Miss X]

No need to read the topic if you aren't interested in it. This is a public forum and our posters have every right to talk about this issue forever if they wish.

It's really easy to not click on the link to this thread if you are sick of reading about it, rocket science it most certainly is not.

[Wezas]

1) The E-mail is amusing - condsidering they took it seriously.

2) Backlash, I agree I should have left the house when I started feeling this way. I was wrong - and the only thing I can blame it on is laziness.

3) It would have been very easy to entrap me. Hell, just have a dark elf come up to me and ask for healing. Easy as that, expelled. No complaining from my side - with the exception of the pissing and moaning about carrying around backpacks and paying the fees (BTW, Landing lockers can only hold like 20 items? Booooo - I'm encumbered as shit for another 4 weeks)

4) Sovyn is a great house. If you believe in their charter - which I assume a majority of the healers/clerics do, then I would suggest joining them. This is the first decision of theirs I thought could have been thought over better - but I have nothing but respect for their member base and a portion of the leadership/values.

::edited to change "a majority" to "a portion"

[Edited on 11-23-2004 by Wezas]

[Ravenstorm]

Just out of curiousity, is it still the biggest House in the game? As far as architecture goes?

Raven

its a big house, but its just a bunch of rooms with peoples names on the doors... like Ravenstorm.

[SpunGirl]

Hahahahahahahahahahaaaa is all I have to say. Haha on Sovyn, haha on Joter. Very ha.

-K

Edited to be fair: Nithili made a good post. I think that even if others continue to blindly insist that nothing was wrong with the situation, at least someone can admit the issue was handled poorly on the part of the Sovyn officers. Applause.

[Edited on 11-23-2004 by SpunGirl]

[Shari]

Kristen, you are the worst RP'er to ever grace the game, you suck and should be tortured in a non-fatal way! I HATE YOU!!!11ONE






Now....please bring in Naessi to kill Jesae and justify that for me.

Joter=dumb

[SpunGirl]

OH NOEZ NAESSI WILL KILL JESAE WITH HER SOOPERPOWERS....NALINA 2....because of what Shari said. Yes, that makes sense.

-K

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by upright
Your reply is off topic.

Joter

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol:

[TheRoseLady]

I'm absolutely stunned at that letter that Mikare sent out, I have one in my box as well.

Perhaps I should attend the next meeting so I can address this directly with the officers and the other members.

Mikare - stop doing things that put a bad name to what has always been a good house. All of the wonderful work that Delyorik has done is being put asunder by the obvious sanctimonious and self-righteous behavior of one person, yourself. You have now done two things that cannot be explained easily. Why don't you tell the truth to the membership, instead of hiding behind some bogus confidentiality garbage? The truth will set you free. Instead of sending out a letter that is sure to create more distress - just admit that you didn't handle a situation properly and that it's HIGHLY UNLIKELY that people would resort to the same sort of poor judgement as yourself, but that in the HIGHLY UNLIKELY event, they could report/assist. Talk about adding insult to injury.

Please, gather up some good judgement and stop doing things that just make the house look silly.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

You could always reply to all, TRL, and explain their actions.

[Miss X]

Originally posted by SpunGirl

Originally posted by upright
Your reply is off topic.

Joter

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol:

Let's be thankful that he is not a moderator on these boards.

Oh God someone glue my fingers to my head so I don't type what I'm thinking!!!!!!!11

[Chadj]

Am I the only one coming away from this feeling that Joter is an idiot, Nith(whatever) is a hypocrite, and Mikare totally is pulling bullshit in attempts to outsmart people?

[Eiderfleur]

Originally posted by Chadj
Am I the only one coming away from this feeling that Joter is an idiot, Nith(whatever) is a hypocrite, and Mikare totally is pulling bullshit in attempts to outsmart people?


Did you actually read the full thread?

Or is this another one of your "I can't be bothered to read the whole thread so I'll just read the last page or two" things.

[Sean]

He'd know even if he read the last 2 pages.

Anyway, the email made me laugh. But then again it's nice to see that they care about the house somewhat, well atleast the players.

[Meges]

Originally posted by Chadj
Am I the only one coming away from this feeling that Joter is an idiot, Nith(whatever) is a hypocrite, and Mikare totally is pulling bullshit in attempts to outsmart people?

Unfortunately, Joter is not the only idiot involved with this particular series of events. While I never seriously considered having either of my two empaths or my cleric joining this house, in light of recent events and how this house is ran, I most certainly will not now. I'll actively campaign against this house in the future though. I cannot recommend this house to any of my friends or any new players I happen to come into contact with. Of course, this will all be based on “in-game rumors,” to keep it “in-character” and all.

Meges

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
You could always reply to all, TRL, and explain their actions.

I considered this, but I am pretty positive that all replies have to be approved. When one of my characters was chair of a house, the replies had to be released by someone with access. So it's not very likely that any reply would actually make it to the members. I'm sure that Mikare's player wants to do her best to hide her poor judgement from the populace. As I stated before, her letter was proof positive that she's more than capable of pressing the panic button.

[LadyLuck]

Originally posted by HarmNone
Wezas, you might want to check with the Silvergate people to see if there's a waiting period (after you leave a house) before you can join Silvergate.

Per the Cooperative Houses of Elanthia laws, there is a waiting period imposed on all Houses. In order to join a House:

1. A member must be at least level 5.

(Invidual Houses may change this requirement to a higher level, but the system will NOT induct anyone under level 5.)

2. The membership offering (initial fee) must be at least 5,000 silvers.

(Again, Houses may change this and charge more, or quarterly dues, etc. However, the system REQUIRES a character to pay 5000 silvers upon induction.)

3. The member must not be a member of any other House, nor have been a member of any other house for a period of four weeks. (NOTE: Any discovery of a House knowingly violating this rule will result in a fine equal to a minimum of one month's taxes as determined by INQUIRE.)

(The system does NOT require this. You may, technically, leave one house and join another right away. However, it is a violation against the CHE laws that apply to all Houses.)

I know, as the Chair of a House, if I inducted someone who had knowledge of the above and didn't tell me. I'd be pissed. That's money out of our coffers that would be spent on members. :D Then again, it's up to the officers to investigate and use their own discretion. Some members are worth the minor tax fee to get in under your wing ASAP.

My 10 silvers after being an officer for 8 years or so.

[LadyLuck]

Originally posted by RiverRat
I guess it really involves to what extent do you view CHEs as being IG versus OOG. Certainly, its never a cool thing to bring stuff out of game, into game. However, I find it commendable to an extent that an officer is that dedicated to upkeeping the moral views of their house (unless said officer just has a chip on his or her shoulder concerning the originator of this thread). Its just too bad they couldn't have found a more appropiate manner in which to do so.

I'll be the devil's advocate. Let's also make it clear that NO ONE has been informed from Sovyn what the officers were informed at their end. It might not have been fully OOC stuff, and it is feasible that Wez was unattainable via email or in-game for whatever reason.

Firstly, yes, OOC should never be IC, unless... you are referring to IC from an OOC perspective. If you are talking publicly about your character OOC and you are explaining your character's attributes, morals, etc. that's really IC. It's an IC perspective lent from OOC. (confused?) :D

I've been an officer since I first stepped foot in the lands practically. Why? Because I'm just that good. :whistle: But I also belong to one of the few Houses that has a VERY TIGHT KNIT family outside of the game, which falls into us being a tight knit family in game as well - but the officers know how to seperate it, they always have. However, if I saw a member posting on here about how they were going to lure someone into our House to kill them or something insane that blows totally against our principles... I would intercede *appropriately*. Granted, none of our members would do that, we have a strict sponsor system and I and Enterobios get to question new initiates at inductions... we can choose not to induct them if they are joining for the wrong reasons. :saint:

We've had a mailing/discussion list for members for about 6 years and over that time we've shared a lot. We celebrate OOC stuff on it... marriages, pregnancies, you name it. We also mourn with each other... miscarriages, addictions, vehicle accidents that have left our members paralyzed, fires that destroyed homes, etc. Meanwhile, the bulk of messages are IC.

But we know what is OOC and what is IC.

Sovyn is a very reputable House to the CHE system. For many reasons. The CHE is a band of officers from all the Houses, they are pretty tight. Sovyn has their bylaws, their charter, their expectations, just like every House does (except Brigatta, only House without bylaws or charter). That's why there are over a dozen Houses to choose from. You find which one meets your needs that you can benefit from and/or that you can lend benefit to. During our monthly Open House, I frequently question folks who show up and based on their answers, I know which House will best suit them and steer them there. Sometimes we're lucky and get a new one for us that will benefit us as much as we'll benefit her or him.

But, the CHE is a very diverse, political, unique structure in GemStone. And I'm well aquainted with most officers, even the old farts... very few have been in officership as long as I have. It's not uncommon for an officer of another House to come to me seeking advice or input or whatever. And, based on that, and my own experience, never take an arguement for one side as presented. THERE IS ALWAYS ANOTHER SIDE. And yes, the CHE's do take their Houses seriously. Officers have to meet minimum in-game requirements, they devote SOOO much to their Houses, etc.

Bottom line... keep an open mind.

[Edited on 11-24-2004 by LadyLuck]

[LadyLuck]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
I KNEW that's who it was.

That was so wrong, Mikare. Good lord, woman. I like you, but that was lame, hon.

Perhaps Mikare has more knowledge than lent? Perhaps this was supposed to be a private manner that the officers are too professional to lend further?

[Caramia]

Originally posted by upright
Oh? So doing something wrong in game and posting it here is okay? And it unable to be used just because it is here? That is ridiculous. That does not make it unusable by doing so. If anything, the person posting here said they don't wish to keep it confidential. Hence, they opened the door.

Joter

No one said doing something "wrong" (in your opinion) and posting it here makes what they did right or okay, but should OOC information be usable in the game to deal with as an in-game issue? Never.

[LadyLuck]

Originally posted by Meges
Unfortunately, Joter is not the only idiot involved with this particular series of events. While I never seriously considered having either of my two empaths or my cleric joining this house, in light of recent events and how this house is ran, I most certainly will not now. I'll actively campaign against this house in the future though. I cannot recommend this house to any of my friends or any new players I happen to come into contact with. Of course, this will all be based on “in-game rumors,” to keep it “in-character” and all.

Meges

Oh please. The officers of Sovyn are very reputable. The great thing about the Cooperative Houses of Elanthia is that you CAN choose - if you want - a House to join. Is it fair to deamean any over the other without all eyes insight... no. Is it fair to judge the officers without knowing their situation... no. Is it silly to denounce a House publicly because they don't meet your needs, desires, wants as a character, yes... because as a character, you have the decision to choose a House or you, or choose not to join. Is it fair to say that the officers work hard to uphold their standards and House meaning... YES. Get over it people. If a House isn't right for you, based on their foundation, then pick another or none at all. But to stand in a place where a House doesn't represent you (or worse, to assume a House based on heresay, or not knowing), and to bash that House... Even the boldest CHE's stand joined and wouldn't take interfeuding to heart.

It's very simple. Be involved and know really what's going on, or shut up. OR, better yet, have a heart and seek more than a locker and lend a heart to a House that best represents you based on that Houses' purpose, that you also lend benefit to. Otherwise, no worries, don't join a House... or join it as locker space as admitted and shut up - you don't represent your House. It's not really THAT complicated.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by LadyLuck

Originally posted by CrystalTears
I KNEW that's who it was.

That was so wrong, Mikare. Good lord, woman. I like you, but that was lame, hon.

Perhaps Mikare has more knowledge than lent? Perhaps this was supposed to be a private manner that the officers are too professional to lend further?

So you're saying it was acceptable of her to not only post a response in a thread of her disapproval of his behavior but to also send a U2U to him saying that his behavior needs to be discussed as well?

These boards should not have been used as a medium to gather information and communicate with house members regarding issues. It was, in my opinion, a low blow. Regardless of whether they had proof up the wazoo, the fact that they came HERE to try to gain his attention was, to me, quite lame of a strategy.

It only takes one badly executed high and mighty officer decision to ruin the reputation of a house because of the way they handled a problem. Regardless of the good intentions of the officers, people will feel threatened if they feel they can't even speak freely in an OOC medium because an officer may be listening and take action for something that should be taken with a grain of salt and instead taken at face value.

Unless it's an abused bug in the game, people don't like it when Simu staff use OOC knowledge to punish someone either, and it's their game to run. It's unacceptable. House officers will definitely get even less room for that kind of behavior.

[Nakiro]

Great Houses are retarded anyway.

Simutronics should just sell more locker space.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by LadyLuck
Oh please. The officers of Sovyn were very reputable.

I fixed it for you.

The thing I find most unsettling is that Wezas would have been expelled no matter what, and the name of his accuser would not have been revealed.

In any court the witness have to be made known and the accuser has to be present.

In this case I think they were present, but weren't willing to fess up.

The role play of the officers is now exactly on par with Warscooterhm.


[Edited on 11-24-2004 by Tsa`ah]

[Kainen]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah

Originally posted by LadyLuck
Oh please. The officers of Sovyn were very reputable.

I fixed it for you.

The thing I find most unsettling is that Wezas would have been expelled no matter what, and the name of his occuser would not have been revealed.

In any court the witness have to be made known and the accuser has to be present.

In this case I think they were present, but weren't willing to fess up.

The role play of the officers is now exactly on par with Warscooterhm.

[Edited on 11-24-2004 by Tsa`ah]

AMEN!!!

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by Chadj
Am I the only one coming away from this feeling that Joter is an idiot, Nith(whatever) is a hypocrite, and Mikare totally is pulling bullshit in attempts to outsmart people?

Give credit where it's due, Chadj. Nithili admitted that the situation was handled poorly and stated that this would not happen in the future. I can't imagine asking for more than that, and I can't imagine he can force the others to take the same high road.

Lady Luck, on the other hand, needs to go back and read with comprehension this time. The SUBJECT of the u2u from Mikare was referencing the post he made. The body of the u2u said, "we need to talk."

Really, how much more obvious can you GET?

-K

[Orendis]

I'm not sure where to begin. In the course of this thread, we've slapped, had foreplay with, beaten, drew and quartered, and massacred a horse, and the fun didn't stop there! I still have to say my piece (which doesn't imply that I'm speaking out of a part of my anatomy with a similar nome de plume.

I appreciate that the Great Houses are a part of Elanthian history. Joining one never really occurred to me, because I like my freedom in-game. It always felt like I, as an average and likeable--some might say impossibly sexy--uberdork, would be relinquishing a part of my life and freedom to someone with far more problems than I. We all know that the Internet lends people a pair of big brass testes every time they log on. I didn't want to deal with an empowered person who happened to suck at life just so I could say I was part of something. (With the Mentors, it was different: they have a defined purpose and I felt that I could fill a niche there.)

A lot of what I saw in this thread was unadulterated crepulence. It illustrates what happens when people who take themselves far too seriously come in contact with the cold bitchslap of candid disregard.

I don't care how Sovyn got their information in this issue: it was handled poorly. Had I received such a condescending letter from people I knew through a game, I would've been looking up ASCII text for a gigantic middle finger to send right back. People join House Sovyn and other houses to get involved, not to become the meek and simpering servants of the officership. More importantly, officers of any such house should realize that GemStone is a game: their illusions of power, righteousness, and hierarchy are positively delusional. You--and I speak to the officers of Sovyn here--all saw how far you could reach to herd one of your errant sheep. Had Wezas decided to be evasive, this could've dragged out for several months. Oh, wait. It did.

There's an old adage about letting the one without sin cast the first stone. Not only did you people handle Wezas badly, you encouraged this issue's volatility with your responses. I've rarely seen such condescension. It swayed me away from your side as I read this thread. Joter, I know you're a colleague. Hell, I remember you from when you were an impudent n00b in Icemule begging for my Kuon symbol. Your response was abrasive and dodgy. You are not a moderator on these boards, and the response left me wondering who the hell you think you are.

And back to the topic of the pure and stone-throwing, you officers had to know that jumping into this fray would be unwise. The people who frequent the Players' Corner are resourceful and don't owe you the manufactured respect you've garnered from your membership. Sovyn has fallen a long way since Delyorik left. I don't think there's an informed Elanthian unaware of the majority membership's penchant for script-healing and vulturing. I'm quite fond of Jamus, but you people talk about not supporting use of OOC information in-game and you have the creator of PsiNet in your ranks? Come on.

I do consider a number of Sovyn members to be my friends, most especially Mikare, Delyorik, Jamus, and Libdro--I shouldn't have to name them, but I didn't want to be vague.

I'm disappointed in the house leadership, and had to speak up. Be honest with yourselves, and maybe people will stop being brutally candid toward you.

Tierus's Dream Daemon

[SpunGirl]

Chris, Tierus, I love you more with each ten-point vocabulary word that falls from your lips or flows from your fingertips to the computer screen. Otherwise I wouldn't put up with your constant bitching about my driving. :heart:

-K

[Edited on 11-24-2004 by SpunGirl]

[maddmanhatter]

Yes Chris, LHOD has spoken, and spoken well I might add. After all this time, I've finally come to the PC. At last the IQ average has reached the double digits. Yes you've guessed it, Dalboz is here to bring everybody out of the cold darkness of ignorance and stupidity and shove them into the harsh light of knowledge only to drop them into a pit of a lacking common sense.

- J

[Parkbandit]

All I know is that it was ME that caused the panic email.

ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME

They are so scared of Falgrin.. they must be changing their healing scripts to account for him.

[AnticorRifling]

Does the harsh light of knowledge always have run-on sentences?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

FUCKING PWNED!!!!!1111!!oneONE111

[maddmanhatter]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by AnticorRifling
Does the harsh light of knowledge always have run-on sentences?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, yes it does. In fact I believe it's a mandatory thing to have run-on sentences when speaking about the light of knowledge but I suppose it's not so much a requirement as it is just a matter of etiquette.

[SpunGirl]

LOL, J, don't be retarded. I *told* you that when you come post here, you should ease in and not try to pwn people right away. I told you this. Next time you'll learn to listen to me.

-K

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by maddmanhatter
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by AnticorRifling
Does the harsh light of knowledge always have run-on sentences?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, yes it does. In fact I believe it's a mandatory thing to have run-on sentences when speaking about the light of knowledge but I suppose it's not so much a requirement as it is just a matter of etiquette.

So you're going to push me into knowledge when you don't have a solid grasp on the quote button or breaking up sentences? Good luck with that.

[Wezas]

I was wondering when someone would do a graphic like that PB. Very amusing.

As for Sovyn (again) I joined, agreed to their bylaws, changed my philsophy for roleplaying, should have quit, and had I been caught/accused/observed in game - I would have resigned then. As I've said before, these "town rumors" could have been used to entrap me into breaking the house bylaws in front of an officer.

My only issue with a few officers of Sovyn is that they stand by their "we have a witness" claim, yet will not tell me a name. Fine, no name, I understand privacy. Tell me a date/time. Surely you received a log of the event as proof? They also refused that.

This whole thing is entirely my fault - and is due to my laziness of not leaving the house. I reitterate that I encourage anyone who agrees with Sovyn's bylaws and values join the house, as I've said I would consider if my opinions of not healing everyone ever change.

[Drew2]

I COULD SAY SOMETHING BUT I WON'T BUT JUST KNOW THAT IT WOULD BE EXTREMELY FUNNY AND PWN-RIFIC.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by maddmanhatter
Yes Chris, LHOD has spoken, and spoken well I might add. After all this time, I've finally come to the PC. At last the IQ average has reached the double digits. Yes you've guessed it, Dalboz is here to bring everybody out of the cold darkness of ignorance and stupidity and shove them into the harsh light of knowledge only to drop them into a pit of a lacking common sense.

- J

And this intellectual masterpiece can't even find a topic to adhere to.

Congratulations, you have dropped the collective IQ past what Lycain and Warscooterhm were able to accomplish collectively.

[Chelle]

Owch Tsa'ah. Nothin like the sting of Tsa'ah's hand on your ass. :D

[maddmanhatter]

That was the slap heard round the world, I must admit. Good work Tsa`ah, I'm sure I had it coming to me.

- J