403 and 404

[Enuch]

I was reading the wiki and it seemed kind of vague as to the actual bonus that these spells provide. Do these spells double your ranks or is it some weird equation that uses your ranks * dex * something divided by blah?

Thinking about singling lp and disarm since I have a mana pool and some points (I like lock picks otherwise I know I could just pop them) and seeing if with 1x and 403 and 404 if I could pick my level boxes excluding things like minos

[gilchristr]

I am also curious about these spells in relation to overtraining the minor elemental spell list (i.e. above your level). Does it keep improving 403/404, or not?

Enuch I will try and dig up a post for your question


"Lore Formulas are pretty close to:

403 bonus = ( Level / 2 ) + ( Picking Locks Bonus / 10 ) + ( Dex Bonus / 2 ) + ( Int Bonus / 2 ) + Ranks in 400s

404 bonus = ( Level / 2 ) + ( Disarming Traps Bonus / 10 ) + ( Agi Bonus / 2 ) + ( Dis Bonus / 2 ) + Ranks in 400s

All fractions round down. The bonus to 403 is applied before the lockpick multiplier." (I added the bold because this is a pretty big deal to just follow at the end...)


Also there was a change in ~2007. Ill try to find. I think it lowered the level bonus, and maybe increase by 25% the skill bonus. And here is the info from that change:

"I just wanted to update you guys that Warden and I have reached a set of numbers that we both feel is reasonable for the updated locks. This is still subject to change, but it is likely to be the final version, so I wanted to make you aware of the gist of the changes.

First, we plan to remove the level-based component from 403, leaving the Pick Locks skill, Minor Elemental ranks, and Dexterity bonus as the factors, weighted the same as they are now. As a result, 403 will provide a smaller bonus than it did previously, and the bonus will be flatter (grow more slowly) than before.

At the same time, we'll be modifying the basic lockpicking equation to increase the Pick Locks skill contribution by 25%; in effect, you will be treated as if your Pick Locks skill is 25% higher than it really is.

The net effect of the previous two changes is that being an good lockpicker will have more to do with one's training in Pick Locks than whether one knows 403. As well, most pickers will see their max lock increase somewhat, especially those with a lot of skill.

Finally, the lock range for basically every creature in the game will be changing, in some cases by several hundred points. Most creatures will see their lock ranges increase on average. When these changes go live, you should be cautious for a little while until you get used to both your new max and the lock ranges for various creatures. We'll reiterate these details when the actual roll in of the changes approaches.

The details of this are still subject to change, and are not being deployed in the immediate future. Now that lock numbers are dealt with, we have to perform a similar analysis for trap numbers, which may or may not see analogous changes.

- Consigliere Ildran, Shizlock Holmesplice"

[Enuch]

Okay so this is good to know. So with 20 ranks of 400 and lock picking plus random numbers of 20 bonus for dex. + 2 + 10 + 20 = so at lvl 20 would add 32 ranks? Or am I thinking of this the wrong way?

I know the formula is rough so I wouldn't live or die by these numbers but even rough it would be helpful.


Thank you for this post by the wAy

[gilchristr]

Well you should think of it like this: every incremental rank in minor elemental sphere more than another incremental rank of picking and another incremental rank of disarming.

(I am not counting all the other bonuses from 403/404 realized from this spell for comparison purposes to training picking/disarming because those other bonuses do not require minor elemental ranks [one can get 403/404 from a scroll, etc.)

I have a bard that is 2x in disarming/picking and 1x in MnE. So I guess thats like being over than 3x in both, not counting the other bonuses. The bit that remains unclear to me is what happens if I go over 1x training in MnE?