Paladin weapons

[Godsanvil]

I solo hunt a lot. Right now I use a lance I'm lvl 41. I was just wondering on people opinions on paladin weapons and soloing. I was torn between Lance 7 rt atm hits hard but slow if I needed to change stance it can leave me hung out to dry if I mob runs in after a swing. Naginata I like it a lot doesn't hit as hard but 5 RT is nice and hits decent. The one I haven't tried and would like to is shield and morning star. I really am not looking to be insane max damage guy in one hit. I am looking for which one would be best to use solo until cap. I have no problems now but I'm hunting Spectral Miners and they are pretty simple. I am sure things will get harder. I just want to prepare for that.

[MrMortimur]

shield maneuvers are fun for both utility, flavor, and power. star/shield has been fun for me, especially once you can afford enough MOC for some double or triple strikes. Haven't done lance or 2h as a paladin before, the TP costs just made it too prohibitive in my mind.

[Godsanvil]

shield maneuvers are fun for both utility, flavor, and power. star/shield has been fun for me, especially once you can afford enough MOC for some double or triple strikes. Haven't done lance or 2h as a paladin before, the TP costs just made it too prohibitive in my mind.
If I could find a decent 5x or better star id switch and see what it is like.

[Astray]

I have a pair of weapons that cycle from 3 to 7x. One flares sleep and the other nightmare.

Little pricey though.

[loxe]

check out the thread i started build thoughts i was in a similar situation went from thw to sword and board and was getting discouraged by how much slower i was killing stuff compared to the big weapons. by the end of the thread taking advice from others i posted a build i ended up with and let me tell you im tearing up whatever i hunt and am having fun doing it. i hunt solo and self spelled.

[Soulance]

Love my sword and board. Currently I have a 7x handaxe bonded but am going to swap it out for a longsword one of these days.

I use pretty much only oassive shield maneuvers - tower shield with spikes. Shield Spike Mastery rocks and hits from time to time when things "get to close."

Once you get that good armor you'll be nearly invincible!

But yea, it can slow a few things down.

[Ltlprprincess]

I use blunt and board with a tower shield and train on phalanx. It's a nice build.

[Shaps]

Train what fits your "vision" of your character... ie. Mine is an Elf.. using a morning star (though I tried it out), I couldn't visualize really.

As for power.. I much prefer a polearm over OHE-B/Shield. The killing power is just so much more effective. But either does work, and works well.

Though if I could find a really nice OHE, I would consider swapping as I can visualize that. But finding one of those can be a pain.

[Godsanvil]

I use blunt and board with a tower shield and train on phalanx. It's a nice build.
Phalanx you use with another person that has phalanx right?

[Godsanvil]

Train what fits your "vision" of your character... ie. Mine is an Elf.. using a morning star (though I tried it out), I couldn't visualize really.

As for power.. I much prefer a polearm over OHE-B/Shield. The killing power is just so much more effective. But either does work, and works well.

Though if I could find a really nice OHE, I would consider swapping as I can visualize that. But finding one of those can be a pain.

Yeah I can't find a nice morning star either.

[Erous]

Yeah I can't find a nice morning star either.

I have a 6x star that is either superior or perfect forged that we can chat price on if you'd like, I'm happy to part with it as it's just taking up dust. It's vanilla, so guiding light flares from your bond will basically rule this weapon. I solo hunt 98% of the time unless I'm asked to come out to Illistim for some bandit romping from time to time. I'm OHB/Shield and a master in voln and can uphunt undead depending on the caliber of the undead by close to 10 trains, I basically run max Rhet bounties in Wehnimers and do a solid job minus some poor maneuver luck or something silly.

I'm runnin MBP right now because I don't have the trains yet for full plate, but I mix and match between 1609 and 1617 depending on the critters Im hunting. Most critters around my train, especially undead have me go full offensive with 1617 and Im now starting to fight critters where you need to kill them before they kill you basically, so it's been sort of my go-to setup. The thing is, we have such a crazy high AS that going shield with your shield MANs is just too good NOT to do, because you're really not sacrificing much on the AS side for the added defense.

The annual fixskills in coming in a couple months too, so Id fixskill now and try it out before we get there to see if you like it.

Edit: Another thing. Because you're more than likely 1x dodge with your polearm build, you save an asston of training points for other things...like spells, or MoC...ambush even. As a dwarf I spend most of my time open ambushing as a paladin and it's awesome.

[time4fun]

Yeah I can't find a nice morning star either.

There just aren't a ton of high end OHBs out there compared to OHEs. Your best bet is to get a vanilla perfect, have a wizard enchant it to 7x, and then maybe splurge on some PPs to enchant it to 8x.

[Godsanvil]

I have a 6x star that is either superior or perfect forged that we can chat price on if you'd like, I'm happy to part with it as it's just taking up dust. It's vanilla, so guiding light flares from your bond will basically rule this weapon. I solo hunt 98% of the time unless I'm asked to come out to Illistim for some bandit romping from time to time. I'm OHB/Shield and a master in voln and can uphunt undead depending on the caliber of the undead by close to 10 trains, I basically run max Rhet bounties in Wehnimers and do a solid job minus some poor maneuver luck or something silly.

I'm runnin MBP right now because I don't have the trains yet for full plate, but I mix and match between 1609 and 1617 depending on the critters Im hunting. Most critters around my train, especially undead have me go full offensive with 1617 and Im now starting to fight critters where you need to kill them before they kill you basically, so it's been sort of my go-to setup. The thing is, we have such a crazy high AS that going shield with your shield MANs is just too good NOT to do, because you're really not sacrificing much on the AS side for the added defense.

The annual fixskills in coming in a couple months too, so Id fixskill now and try it out before we get there to see if you like it.

Edit: Another thing. Because you're more than likely 1x dodge with your polearm build, you save an asston of training points for other things...like spells, or MoC...ambush even. As a dwarf I spend most of my time open ambushing as a paladin and it's awesome.
Sent ya a message

[Vusit]

paladin AS is so high, it is hard to go wrong when picking a weapon style, get a perfect, enchant to 6x/7x, bond and murder stuff.
open ambush, mstrike, or just clobber till dead. your choice.

[Erous]

or just clobber till dead. your choice.

This made me chortle IRL

[Ltlprprincess]

Phalanx you use with another person that has phalanx right?

Yeah, two or more people and you build up the DS of the entire group.

[caelric]

I ran a paladin up to about 70ish using TWC/OHB with dual morning stars. The TWC was nice because I used a 7x perfect in the right hand, fully bonded, and I used a tricked out 5x T5 MCW star in the left hand. y that I mean, you can go hog wild trying to trick out the left hand weapon because you don't have to worry about not getting flares/weighting/etc... due to the paladin bonded weapon being the right hand weapon.

[kutter]

My Paladin is 44 and swings a 6X naginata, have a perfect lance I am ready to bond too, but I do not like how quickly RT adds up as soon as I get any encumbrance and stuff still dies pretty quickly with a naginata. He is hunting the Marsh Keep solo and with friends and never seems to have too much trouble unless it is just one of those crazy lucky things or more than 4 critters come into the room. After the wrecking crew that is a polearm I think it would be hard to go shield and blunt or edged.

[Godsanvil]

My Paladin is 44 and swings a 6X naginata, have a perfect lance I am ready to bond too, but I do not like how quickly RT adds up as soon as I get any encumbrance and stuff still dies pretty quickly with a naginata. He is hunting the Marsh Keep solo and with friends and never seems to have too much trouble unless it is just one of those crazy lucky things or more than 4 critters come into the room. After the wrecking crew that is a polearm I think it would be hard to go shield and blunt or edged.
I like Naginatas a lot im thinking about buying a 4x flaring one someone is selling because I don't want to un bond my lance. I wish you could bond more then one weapon.

[Soulance]

I like Naginatas a lot im thinking about buying a 4x flaring one someone is selling because I don't want to un bond my lance. I wish you could bond more then one weapon.
I think that's what it boils down to - what you envision your character to be. Personally, I understand the hesitation to break the bond, but each time I've done it for whatever reason it really hasn't taken that long to re-bond to the weapon, especially at lower levels. My Pally is only around 54 trains, but like I said, doesn't take too long to re-bond and get all the extra goodies of a bonded weapon.

[Shaps]

Agree bonding/re-bonding should not dictate what style you want to use. It's easy enough to bond to a weapon.

Also you do not need to be over 1x Dodge when using polearms. I am 1x Dodge and do just fine, oddly my DS seems on par with the times I was 2x Shield/0x Dodge. Granted I run with some decent gear, but nothing to extravagant other than my armor.. and I run with Zealot up all the time and have no issues in the Temple, etc.

As for OHBs, I have an 8x perfect one just gathering dust.. unfortunately my accounts are not active right now as I'm taking a break, but there should be some out there that can be found.

[Shaps]

As for armor.. I originally was trained for Full Plate, but have since moved to MBP. The Maneuver penalty, coupled with 2x PF + GoS sigil of padding is enough for me. And I prefer maximizing the avoidance portion of maneuvers since those are what kill me.

I will move to full plate eventually, but still haven't found the right set (and that 10x MCP set was perfect.. sadly no funds for it, well rather nothing I was willing to give up for it at this time).

[Gnomad]

I use blunt and board with a tower shield and train on phalanx. It's a nice build.

This is what I do as well. (He hunts with a hurling paladin, which kinda terrifies me but is definitely deadly.)

[Soulance]

So, it's really not worth it to also 1x in dodge with a Tower Shield? Thought I read somewhere in the past that it wasn't a bad idea.

[Erous]

So, it's really not worth it to also 1x in dodge with a Tower Shield? Thought I read somewhere in the past that it wasn't a bad idea.

It's my understanding that the larger the shield, the greater the dodge penalty:

https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Dodging#Shield_Factors

Dodge formula for melee: Dodge DS = [(Base Value × Armor Hindrance × Shield Factor) - Shield Size Penalty] × Stance Modifier
Dodge formula for ranged: Dodge DS = (Base Value × Armor Hindrance × Shield Factor × Stance Modifier) × 1.5

Note: The shield factors are derived from the following shield penalties: 22% (small), 30% (medium), 38% (large) and 46% (tower).

Size Shield Factor
Small 0.78
Medium 0.70
Large 0.62
Tower 0.54

[Soulance]

That makes sense. So does training in dodge help to mitigate those penalties, or you just don't get as high of a bonus when you train? Or does that mean the same thing basically?

Edit: Oh, I see. A whole bunch of things on the page there. Great, now I have to try to figure that all out. Not fun.

[Astray]

I've learned recently that people just skip dodge altogether if they have a Tower Shield.

[Soulance]

I've learned recently that people just skip dodge altogether if they have a Tower Shield.
This might be a good idea from what I can see initially. Really not worth it for a few mere DS. Better off putting the TPs into other things most likely. I'm going to have to take a look at this a little more.

[Astray]

That and Paladins are great with shields.

[Soulance]

Well, looks like it might help squeeze out a few DS at least. Possibly 15-20 in offensive. That's better than nothing I suppose. I'll have to crunch this out a bit more. Just a lot of TPs for 15-20 DS.

[mgoddess]

So, it's really not worth it to also 1x in dodge with a Tower Shield? Thought I read somewhere in the past that it wasn't a bad idea.

Having gone from 1x Dodge/2x Shield Use with a medium shield to 0x Dodge/2x Shield Use and a tower shield, my pally lost maybe 10 DS tops in offensive stance... didn't notice a change in defensive stance DS. Outcome in thinking: training in Dodge isn't worth it pre-cap if using a tower shield. So many good shieldmans with the tower shield, it was well worth the conversion.

[Godsanvil]

Well I have a 4x flaring naginata a 4x none flaring naginata and a 4x vultite lance. +32 Breastplate (covers chest and arms). Wish I had a 4x or 5x morning star and tower shield. I have been looking for a few months for the star.

[Gnomad]

That makes sense. So does training in dodge help to mitigate those penalties, or you just don't get as high of a bonus when you train? Or does that mean the same thing basically?

Edit: Oh, I see. A whole bunch of things on the page there. Great, now I have to try to figure that all out. Not fun.

Basically, if you're in metal breastplate with a tower shield in full offensive, you'll get 0.357 DS from a rank of dodging. You'll get 0.330 offensive DS in full plate.

That's about 1 DS every 3 levels minus rounding. I can find a better way to spend 5/3 on my paladin, but if you've got it to spare, might as well go for it.

[Soulance]

Basically, if you're in metal breastplate with a tower shield in full offensive, you'll get 0.357 DS from a rank of dodging. You'll get 0.330 offensive DS in full plate.

That's about 1 DS every 3 levels minus rounding. I can find a better way to spend 5/3 on my paladin, but if you've got it to spare, might as well go for it.
Buuuuuut - you do get a 5% chance of evasion with 1x dodge which could be useful occasionally. I don't use full plate just yet, still in doubles I think - maybe a little higher because I'm getting around 4% failure.

Or - does that 5% get reduced as well depending on what you're wearing/using?

[Astray]

Don't you have a better chance to just outright block the attack than dodge if you utilize your points properly?

[Shaps]

It's not mathematical at all, but I notice (ie. feel a difference) when I'm 2xShield/1xDodge vs. 2xShield/0xDodge.

Again, dodge is not a requirement.. but I always felt like I did better with it in my training plan.

[Shaps]

On a different note, if anyone has a 10x perfect OHE.. or one less with some serious weighting or abilities let me know.. may be interested.

[meekee38]

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?101086-10x-Perfect-T5-Ensorcelled-Handaxe

10x Perfect T5 Ensorcell HandAxe. Best OHE weapon base IMO.

[Insodus]

Well, looks like it might help squeeze out a few DS at least. Possibly 15-20 in offensive. That's better than nothing I suppose. I'll have to crunch this out a bit more. Just a lot of TPs for 15-20 DS.

Yea, I would highly recommend ditching dodge altogether and just going shield use.

Easy enough to prove out with some mathz. Most paladin training paths will be in ASG over 15 very early on. So lets assume plate and a tower shield, and of course offensive stance cause yolo. Also we'll assume you are converting physical to mental TPs cause a lot of training paths will be doing that.

That gets you .333 DS per dodge rank and .433 DS per shield rank. Dodge is 5/3 so that would be 11 total points after conversion. Shield use is 3/0 so 3 total points after conversion.

Dodge: .333 DS / 11 points = 0.030 DS per training point
Shield: .433 DS / 3 points = 0.144 DS per training point

Thats a pretty big difference. But lets further assume you are already 1x in shield and 0x in dodge, that ups the training cost to 6/0 for shield...

Dodge: .333 DS / 11 points = 0.030 DS per training point
Shield: .433 DS / 6 points = 0.072 DS per training point

Even still the shield points are over twice as good as the dodge points. Obviously all this math changes with smaller shields and lesser armor, but honestly who is doing that on a paladin?

For completeness, you may also wonder about the lores and if they are a better option vs dodge. The math is trickier since they are summation, but lets give it a shot. Blessings Lore improves 1601 by seed 2 summation, and 1613 by seed 6 summation. Summoning lore improves 1610 by seed 5 summation. If we start with the 0 ranks of everything... lets just average it out around seed 2 summation giving you a DS point every 5 ranks roughly, seed 5 every 8 ranks, and seed 6 every 10 ranks. just to average it out a little, obviously this isnt perfect. That means blessings is roughly .3 DS per rank and summoning is 0.125 DS per rank. Lets plug that in again...

In a heavy armor with a tower shield, 1x shield already, 0x dodge, and with little to no lores yet trained....

Dodge: .333 DS / 11 points = 0.030 DS per training point
Shield: .433 DS / 6 points = 0.072 DS per training point
Blessing: .3 DS / 15 points = 0.020 DS per training point
Summng: 0.125 DS / 15 points = 0.008 DS per training point

Conclusion: Shield ranks are way better than dodge ranks all the way up to 2x. After that with spare points Dodge will give you better DS per point than Blessings, but only by a slight margin. The other great benefits you get from Blessings means you should training blessings up to the point of around 50 ranks, at which point if you still have leftover points you may want to dodge. But really dodge is a last resort. Also this math falls apart in later levels as you start converting points the other way, but by then you should have enough spare points to do your lores and also 2x shield 1x dodge, so it doesnt really matter.

[Godsanvil]

Yall Hijacked my thread.

[Soulance]

Wow, this is awesome Insodus. Glad you like math! Appreciated.


Yea, I would highly recommend ditching dodge altogether and just going shield use.

Easy enough to prove out with some mathz. Most paladin training paths will be in ASG over 15 very early on. So lets assume plate and a tower shield, and of course offensive stance cause yolo. Also we'll assume you are converting physical to mental TPs cause a lot of training paths will be doing that.

That gets you .333 DS per dodge rank and .433 DS per shield rank. Dodge is 5/3 so that would be 11 total points after conversion. Shield use is 3/0 so 3 total points after conversion.

Dodge: .333 DS / 11 points = 0.030 DS per training point
Shield: .433 DS / 3 points = 0.144 DS per training point

Thats a pretty big difference. But lets further assume you are already 1x in shield and 0x in dodge, that ups the training cost to 6/0 for shield...

Dodge: .333 DS / 11 points = 0.030 DS per training point
Shield: .433 DS / 6 points = 0.072 DS per training point

Even still the shield points are over twice as good as the dodge points. Obviously all this math changes with smaller shields and lesser armor, but honestly who is doing that on a paladin?

For completeness, you may also wonder about the lores and if they are a better option vs dodge. The math is trickier since they are summation, but lets give it a shot. Blessings Lore improves 1601 by seed 2 summation, and 1613 by seed 6 summation. Summoning lore improves 1610 by seed 5 summation. If we start with the 0 ranks of everything... lets just average it out around seed 2 summation giving you a DS point every 5 ranks roughly, seed 5 every 8 ranks, and seed 6 every 10 ranks. just to average it out a little, obviously this isnt perfect. That means blessings is roughly .3 DS per rank and summoning is 0.125 DS per rank. Lets plug that in again...

In a heavy armor with a tower shield, 1x shield already, 0x dodge, and with little to no lores yet trained....

Dodge: .333 DS / 11 points = 0.030 DS per training point
Shield: .433 DS / 6 points = 0.072 DS per training point
Blessing: .3 DS / 15 points = 0.020 DS per training point
Summng: 0.125 DS / 15 points = 0.008 DS per training point

Conclusion: Shield ranks are way better than dodge ranks all the way up to 2x. After that with spare points Dodge will give you better DS per point than Blessings, but only by a slight margin. The other great benefits you get from Blessings means you should training blessings up to the point of around 50 ranks, at which point if you still have leftover points you may want to dodge. But really dodge is a last resort. Also this math falls apart in later levels as you start converting points the other way, but by then you should have enough spare points to do your lores and also 2x shield 1x dodge, so it doesnt really matter.

[Insodus]

Yall Hijacked my thread.

Free bumps?

[Godsanvil]

Free bumps?
Yeah great.

[time4fun]

I ran a paladin up to about 70ish using TWC/OHB with dual morning stars. The TWC was nice because I used a 7x perfect in the right hand, fully bonded, and I used a tricked out 5x T5 MCW star in the left hand. y that I mean, you can go hog wild trying to trick out the left hand weapon because you don't have to worry about not getting flares/weighting/etc... due to the paladin bonded weapon being the right hand weapon.

I just wet myself over the MCW star. Let me know if you ever wanna sell it.

[caelric]

I just wet myself over the MCW star. Let me know if you ever wanna sell it.

No, because 1. Plat, 2. I quit and sold of most things a couple of months back due to the wizard spell nerfs, 3. You're a tool.

[time4fun]

No, because 1. Plat, 2. I quit and sold of most things a couple of months back due to the wizard spell nerfs, 3. You're a tool.

ROFL. Says a guy who sold their accounts in a hissy fit and still hangs out on the gaming forum talking about their old digital glory days and trolling from what I can only assume is your mother's basement.

[Jelten]

I'll just ask here since it sort of fits with the title of the thread and all:

+22 Katana or +30 Perfect Greataxe? Both T1, both obviously further ensorcellable. Better DF/enchant with flares or faster with HCW?

Based solely on the math and ignoring any RP concerns, which would likely be the better choice to bond to?

[kutter]

I'll just ask here since it sort of fits with the title of the thread and all:

+22 Katana or +30 Perfect Greataxe? Both T1, both obviously further ensorcellable. Better DF/enchant with flares or faster with HCW?

Based solely on the math and ignoring any RP concerns, which would likely be the better choice to bond to?

I am sure some will disagree but I am in the same boat with naginata vs lance. I just cannot make myself go to the lance yet because of RT slowdown as soon as I pick something up. Part of it is hunting in armor I am not quite trained for I am sure, but since the naginata hits pretty hard anyway, I do not feel like I am giving up much by staying with it. Will I go to the lance once day, yes, just probably not for a little while, probably going to bond the 7X naginata that I have hanging around for now, just because.

I would say given those two weapons, chose the one that fits the character more, since they are very different.

[Shaps]

It's relative. Use different weapons. Need speed + light armored opponents. Use a Nagi or Katana. Heavy/stone armor creatures go with a lance or greataxe. No rules against carrying 2-3 different weapons.

[time4fun]

It's relative. Use different weapons. Need speed + light armored opponents. Use a Nagi or Katana. Heavy/stone armor creatures go with a lance or greataxe. No rules against carrying 2-3 different weapons.

This. It's okay to have a few different ways to get the job done.

[Jelten]

Completely agree. But I can only bond to one, so I was looking for advice/opinions as to which to pick for 1625.

[Shaps]

Completely agree. But I can only bond to one, so I was looking for advice/opinions as to which to pick for 1625.

Understand. I would recommend getting the greataxe up to 7x at a minimum and bonding to that myself. Weighting as a Paladin is.. nice but not needed when it comes to 2h's IMO.