What did you do to help Sept 11th?

[edge]

I called and offered my help. Work authorized me to go and help since I went through Firefighting school, new CPR and was trained in things that could help in the military. But they said they had more help then they could handle. They would call if they needed me.

I do wish more then anything to go to New York and see where the Twin Towers once was. My family and I been talking about making a trip there.

[Bobmuhthol]

I wished my friend a happy birthday.

Yes, his birthday is September 11.

[Snapp]

I gave blood, and donated money.

[Artha]

I donated some money to the red cross.

[Betheny]

I didn't do much, save supporting our troops through a few rallies and support groups.

A few of my friends went to Afghanistan...

[SpunGirl]

I gave blood (I have O negative blood, meaning anyone can take it). Also helped organize/host a dinner for the families of firefighters and policemen that went to New York from my hometown.

-K

[Jack]

I was on Emergency leave when it happenned, My father died September 10th. After the funeral I had to take a bus back to Fort Meade.... I got back to base, and several of us were sent over to the Pentagon to help with clean up operations. They wanted people with security clearences, in case classified material was out in the open, so quite a few of us went there. I recieved a Joint Service Commendation for my work while supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. I was deployed for three months to Northern Afghanistan.

-Jack

[Rysk]

The company I worked for sent an entire crew out specialized in disaster work.. i wasn't on it.. but thats about as much as I did :(

[Ben]

Nothing, my next door neighbor died though. Want to do something? Protest Israel's control of America.

You won't be surprised, and this isn't intended to upset or offend anyone, it's just the truth.

Absolutely Nothing.

[AnticorRifling]

I went to Cuba do drop of crypto, loaded planes with troops and gear, did security, filled sandbags, built a TDN, alot of my friends and my brother went overseas.

[Bestatte]

On September 11, I was working at Pratt Whitney, in a little portable office, in the middle of their enormous 3-square-block-long warehouse, in the department that makes and repairs those little blades that go into the engine fhingie. The guy at the back of the portable was watching CNN on TV, and said something like "Holy mother of christ" or some such. We all turned to look and watched the first tower burst into flames. Then we watched the second one go down.

Then this wonderful human being (may whatever exists of his soul rot in eternal hell) said, casually, "You know, we'll probably be the next target since we make the jet engine parts for the planes that just hit those buildings."

I screamed once, ran out of the building, and told the temp agency when I got home to -never- send me back to Pratt Whitney again.

I cried for two days because people I knew died in it, and others were missing, and because I watched the whole thing, while it was happening, in a building that is contracted to make military engines (and others) for the government.

I haven't been to New York since before that, and would have gone the week after it happened, if it never happened. I don't know how I'll feel going back there, without seeing the towers from the highway. It's just too close to home for me, literally and emotionally.

[CrystalTears]

Driving through/flying over New York and not seeing the two towers is rather impressionable. For me it was this immediate shock and immense sadness upon seeing the towerless skyline that I had grown up seeing. :(

[Skirmisher]

In some ways living close to the site was helpful.

We could donate items that would be at the site by that day or the next. Our hardware stores nearby all collected masks and gloves and flashlights and the like and you should have seen how quickly the boxes that they put out filled up. They donated some themselves and then had collection points allowing customers to purchase items that were then sent to the site in the city.

And yeah, it IS so freaky still not seeing them there. I am so glad I was able to see the "tower of Light" that was up temporarily. It was something moving to see.

[Notsosweet]

After taking my kids to daycare then turning on the radio , i rushed home to watch the news. My mother was in Abu Dhabi teaching english at a womans college. I tried to call her to make sure she was ok . I couldnt get through to her, When i finally did 3 days later , She told me she was on her way to the Embassy that she had been threated and someone had spit in her face . My mother has to be the most gentle woman in the world and it hurt me to hear her say what had happened to her. I gave blood, i donated money to the Red cross , but most of the time i spent praying , I held my children closer for longer , and i watched more news than i ever had before. I lit candles and watched them burn , I went to church and held hands with people i had only just met ,for someone to say they did nothing , not only angers me but it hurts my heart too . My mother came home soon after 9-11 and she says she will never go back , i cant say i blame her and im certainly glad she is staying home now.

[GSLeloo]

For 9/11 I was in school. We were in Art class when we were told and everyone basically just laughed it off and ignored them. The way they said it it sounded like nothing and especially nothing to be so upset about. It was only when we got home and got to see the video of the planes crashing over and over again into the towers that I think I got how serious it was.
But I actually spent 9/11 in an empty Italian restaurant celebrating my fathers birthday. And then went to my grandma's house, had cake, and watched the news reports all day. 9/12 we watched all the news as we got to celebrate my birthday. Fun.

Originally posted by Notsosweet
After taking my kids to daycare then turning on the radio , i rushed home to watch the news. My mother was in Abu Dhabi teaching english at a womans college. I tried to call her to make sure she was ok . I couldnt get through to her, When i finally did 3 days later , She told me she was on her way to the Embassy that she had been threated and someone had spit in her face . My mother has to be the most gentle woman in the world and it hurt me to hear her say what had happened to her. I gave blood, i donated money to the Red cross , but most of the time i spent praying , I held my children closer for longer , and i watched more news than i ever had before. I lit candles and watched them burn , I went to church and held hands with people i had only just met ,for someone to say they did nothing , not only angers me but it hurts my heart too . My mother came home soon after 9-11 and she says she will never go back , i cant say i blame her and im certainly glad she is staying home now.

Don't be angered Kniquee...

You're a christian. I'm not.

You were worried and shocked. I wasn't.

You have children to worry about. I don't.

You probably have Type O blood, mine's AB+.

You have a job to donate money. Not me.

You felt comfort holding hands with strangers. That would've creeped me out.

You prayed. I didn't.

It deeply effected you. Not me.

You did what you did because it hit you hard. You have reasons to care, reasons to sacrifice, to worry, to cry, to pray, to believe in a god.

I don't have those things in my life, I have no reason to care about what happened, and I didn't. That's why I did nothing.

Don't let my actions upset you... it comes down to different lifestyles and different priorities. I was more upset with my TV shows being interrupted with news than anything else. That was my priority. Yours was something much more meaningful.

[GSLeloo]

Originally posted by Demon Lord Kage

Don't let my actions upset you... it comes down to different lifestyles and different priorities. I was more upset with my TV shows being interrupted with news than anything else. That was my priority. Yours was something much more meaningful.

I do have to say, I was pretty pissed when my soap opera was interrupted (NO!!!) But to say that it meant nothing to you is a little harsh.
I think even if you hate America, it should've affected you. Not because "Oh my god someone attacked America" but more because wow, a lot of people died. And wow, their deaths must've been pretty bad since most of their bodies can't even be found from the ashes. I think that should affect you as a human being, not as an American or someone who lives on the east coast, west coast, alaska, wherever.
It should be human nature to care about the suffering of others, not be indifferent. And that goes for the suffering of people in America, Iraq, Africa, Asia, anywhere. You should care about helping people get better and that should affect you. In my opinion at least. And no I am in no way religious or patriotic.

[Camri]

<<Don't be angered Kniquee...

You're a christian. I'm not.

You were worried and shocked. I wasn't.

You have children to worry about. I don't.

You probably have Type O blood, mine's AB+.

You have a job to donate money. Not me.

You felt comfort holding hands with strangers. That would've creeped me out.

You prayed. I didn't.

It deeply effected you. Not me.

You did what you did because it hit you hard. You have reasons to care, reasons to sacrifice, to worry, to cry, to pray, to believe in a god.

I don't have those things in my life, I have no reason to care about what happened, and I didn't. That's why I did nothing.

Don't let my actions upset you... it comes down to different lifestyles and different priorities. I was more upset with my TV shows being interrupted with news than anything else. That was my priority. Yours was something much more meaningful. >>

It's ok Klaive. If something terrible happens to you or yours, I'll try to remember not to care.

To have such a uncaring non-chalant attitude towards that kind of tragedy is disrespectful not only to the people who lost their lives, but their families who are still here mourning their losses.

Even if you don't have feelings about the issue, you could just shut up out of respect for the people who do.

[Notsosweet]

Originally posted by Demon Lord Kage

Originally posted by Notsosweet
After taking my kids to daycare then turning on the radio , i rushed home to watch the news. My mother was in Abu Dhabi teaching english at a womans college. I tried to call her to make sure she was ok . I couldnt get through to her, When i finally did 3 days later , She told me she was on her way to the Embassy that she had been threated and someone had spit in her face . My mother has to be the most gentle woman in the world and it hurt me to hear her say what had happened to her. I gave blood, i donated money to the Red cross , but most of the time i spent praying , I held my children closer for longer , and i watched more news than i ever had before. I lit candles and watched them burn , I went to church and held hands with people i had only just met ,for someone to say they did nothing , not only angers me but it hurts my heart too . My mother came home soon after 9-11 and she says she will never go back , i cant say i blame her and im certainly glad she is staying home now.

Don't be angered Kniquee...

You're a christian. I'm not.

You were worried and shocked. I wasn't.

You have children to worry about. I don't.

You probably have Type O blood, mine's AB+.

You have a job to donate money. Not me.

You felt comfort holding hands with strangers. That would've creeped me out.

You prayed. I didn't.

It deeply effected you. Not me.

You did what you did because it hit you hard. You have reasons to care, reasons to sacrifice, to worry, to cry, to pray, to believe in a god.

I don't have those things in my life, I have no reason to care about what happened, and I didn't. That's why I did nothing.

Don't let my actions upset you... it comes down to different lifestyles and different priorities. I was more upset with my TV shows being interrupted with news than anything else. That was my priority. Yours was something much more meaningful.


Once again you have your opinion on the matter and i have mine. Im sorry you dont have the heart to at least feel for the people that died.

yes i have children.. many do not they still did something

Yes i work ..and you may not BUT you still manage to pay for GS ? and most of the time if you donate blood .. at least where i live they pay you for it

I am a christan .. and no shit you arn't


I held hands with people who were hurting.. i have a heart

You say you have no reason to sacrifice, cry , worry, pray, or believe in a god. well im not going to bitch at you for not praying or believing in a god.. But i think you must be a sad sad person if you cant find a reason to sacrifice, worry or cry . But thats just my opinion , do with it what you will

Originally posted by GSLeloo

I do have to say, I was pretty pissed when my soap opera was interrupted (NO!!!) But to say that it meant nothing to you is a little harsh.
I think even if you hate America, it should've affected you. Not because "Oh my god someone attacked America" but more because wow, a lot of people died. And wow, their deaths must've been pretty bad since most of their bodies can't even be found from the ashes. I think that should affect you as a human being, not as an American or someone who lives on the east coast, west coast, alaska, wherever.
It should be human nature to care about the suffering of others, not be indifferent. And that goes for the suffering of people in America, Iraq, Africa, Asia, anywhere. You should care about helping people get better and that should affect you. In my opinion at least. And no I am in no way religious or patriotic.

It probably should be. But it's not my nature. I mean no disrespect to anyone... I just really don't care. I'm not happy about it... it doesn't give me pleasure or make me smile... it just doesn't matter to me.

And Camri, if I go through a tragedy, I don't expect you to care. You aren't a close personal friend and when a tragidy strikes, those are the only people I look to... though chances are, I'd just deal with it myself.

I can't help that I don't care. It's not a choice I made. ::shrugs: I'd sell my blood though... that's always good. If they'd pay like...just $10 per donation, that'd be enough to get me to go.

[Edited on 9-9-2003 by Demon Lord Kage]

[GSLeloo]

Originally posted by Demon Lord Kage

It probably should be. But it's not my nature. I mean no disrespect to anyone... I just really don't care. I'm not happy about it... it doesn't give me pleasure or make me smile... it just doesn't matter to me.

And Camri, if I go through a tragidy, I don't expect you to care. You aren't a close personal friend and when a tragidy strikes, those are the only people I look to... though chances are, I'd just deal with it myself.

I can't help that I don't care. It's not a choice I made. ::shrugs: I'd sell my blood though... that's always good. If they'd pay like...just $10 per donation, that'd be enough to get me to go.

It's tragedy.. with an E... sorry spelling is one of my pet peeves I should mention on the other board. And you don't really have to care or be happy. Sympath really isn't either. These are basic human emotions Klaive... you were supposed to be born with them or I guess instilled with them as a child. Sympathy, empathy, caring about others...

[Camri]

It probably should be. But it's not my nature. I mean no disrespect to anyone... I just really don't care. I'm not happy about it... it doesn't give me pleasure or make me smile... it just doesn't matter to me.

And Camri, if I go through a tragidy, I don't expect you to care. You aren't a close personal friend and when a tragidy strikes, those are the only people I look to... though chances are, I'd just deal with it myself.

I can't help that I don't care. It's not a choice I made. ::shrugs: I'd sell my blood though... that's always good. If they'd pay like...just $10 per donation, that'd be enough to get me to go. [/quote]

Don't you understand that you saying you "Don't care" is disrespectful in it's self?

You don't have to care. Go about living your life however you choose. You have that right. But be respectful of other peoples feelings. Some do care, and you're blatant disrespect for their losses isnt even a human response.

I know you don't claim to be patriotic, and you don't claim to have religion. But you are a human being aren't you?

Respect your fellow humans.

[HarmNone]

Klaive seeks only to draw attention to himself. He will take the stand that is most likely to inflame others. The more others become inflamed, the more special he feels. It is to the benefit of the vast majority of us that we are not compelled to be that *special*.

HarmNone knows a game when she sees one

[GSLeloo]

Originally posted by HarmNone
Klaive seeks only to draw attention to himself. He will take the stand that is most likely to inflame others. The more others become inflamed, the more special he feels. It is to the benefit of the vast majority of us that we are not compelled to be that *special*.

HarmNone knows a game when she sees one

I bet he does do that. But in this case he might actually just lacks all human emotion. And I don't think it'll get him much attention... just makes me pity him.

Um, hello. I do have APD. StrayRogue told everyone exactly what that was, yeah?

I don't know why it's such a big deal that I don't give a damn anyway.

I don't.

The End.

PS - Every post that has ever or will ever be posted by HarmNone including the word "Klaive" is wrong.

[HarmNone]

Heh. Did I strike a nerve, little guy?

HarmNone will not call a spade an olive

[GSLeloo]

APD? ADP..... attention defecit... problem? purpose? paranoia?

Originally posted by HarmNone
Heh. Did I strike a nerve, little guy?

HarmNone will not call a spade an olive

Nah, you're just providing the populace with information that you, yourself, truly believe to be accurate... but as the subject of the information, I can tell you definitively... it is not.

I share my opinion on anything and everything that catches my interest. I'm not trying to get attention... in fact, I'd love nothing more than if they all said, "Okay, Klaive. I accept that you felt nothing and I'll stop there and not call you names/pity you."

But that isn't the case. If I wanted attention, I'd just start telling everyone to "STFU". I'm not after attention, I'm just stating the way I feel.

[HarmNone]

Antisocial Personality Disorder is that to which he refers, Leloo.

HarmNone the helpful

Originally posted by GSLeloo
APD? ADP..... attention defecit... problem? purpose? paranoia?

Antisocial Personality Disorder. There's a thread where StrayRogue posted a full article on it.

[Snapp]

<<I share my opinion on anything and everything that catches my interest. >>

If you had no interest in the events of 9/11, why post here then? Oh that's right, to piss people off and get attention.

Originally posted by Snapp
<<I share my opinion on anything and everything that catches my interest. >>

If you had no interest in the events of 9/11, why post here then? Oh that's right, to piss people off and get attention.

I have interest in hearing about what people did, because it's so surreal to me.

Whereas, I have no interest in hearing what Burzmalli did to a merchant, because it just isn't that interesting to me. I also have no desire to talk about how Bush is going to spend money. WTF does the government need money for? Just send the government workers that build highways and stuff to assist in any constructions and command factories to cooperate... they're the government, where are their balls?

Anyway, yeah... it's interesting to see what many people did over the WTC crumbling... I am kinda trying to undestand exactly what it was about this event that moved them so deeply when an arsonists' fire kills a dozen people in an apartment building every week or so in Anytown, USA. Nobody seems to care when it's a normal tragidy... but somehow, two buildings collapsing with people in them suddenly sent everyone into a frenzy... yeah, it's tragic. But what sets it apart? How's it different than say... the Oklahoma City Bombing?

[Camri]

Originally posted by Demon Lord Kage

Originally posted by Snapp
<<I share my opinion on anything and everything that catches my interest. >>

If you had no interest in the events of 9/11, why post here then? Oh that's right, to piss people off and get attention.

I have interest in hearing about what people did, because it's so surreal to me.

Whereas, I have no interest in hearing what Burzmalli did to a merchant, because it just isn't that interesting to me. I also have no desire to talk about how Bush is going to spend money. WTF does the government need money for? Just send the government workers that build highways and stuff to assist in any constructions and command factories to cooperate... they're the government, where are their balls?

Anyway, yeah... it's interesting to see what many people did over the WTC crumbling... I am kinda trying to undestand exactly what it was about this event that moved them so deeply when an arsonists' fire kills a dozen people in an apartment building every week or so in Anytown, USA. Nobody seems to care when it's a normal tragidy... but somehow, two buildings collapsing with people in them suddenly sent everyone into a frenzy... yeah, it's tragic. But what sets it apart? How's it different than say... the Oklahoma City Bombing?

Everyone give up. he's a lost cause.

[HarmNone]

Perhaps, at least, he can learn to spell tragedy. Something lost, something gained, eh? :D

HarmNone assisting the gain

[Skirmisher]

Klaive, your theme song:

I won't grow up.
I won't grow up

No I promise that I won't
No I promise that I won't

I will stay a boy forever!
I will stay a boy forever!

Or be banished if I don't....

[HarmNone]

Heh. For anyone who decides to do some research, be sure to read up on Borderline Personality Disorder and Narcissism. Really fun reading! Not as exciting as Antisocial Personality Disorder, as you cannot pretend to be a cross between Ted Bundy and Jeff Dahmer, but... well, we do what we can, eh?

HarmNone

Originally posted by HarmNone
Perhaps, at least, he can learn to spell tragedy. Something lost, something gained, eh? :D

HarmNone assisting the gain

Tragedy is a word that doesn't make sense.

If something is tragIc, then why isn't it a tragIdy?

[HarmNone]

The words are derived from two different Latin words:

Tragic is from the Latin tragicus.
Tragedy is from the Latin tragoedie

HarmNone

Originally posted by HarmNone
The words are derived from two different Latin words:

Tragic is from the Latin tragicus.
Tragedy is from the Latin tragoedie

HarmNone

I don't like that.

In Klaiveneese, Tragedy is spelled Tragidy.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Demon Lord Kage
I don't like that.

In Klaiveneese, Tragedy is spelled Tragidy.

Oh, I fully understand. When my daughter was about two, she saw a caterpillar. When I told her what it was, she repeated "haddapedder". I pronounced the word for her again, and she said: "No. It is a haddapedder."

Thereafter, until she was old enough to realize her fallibility (at around 3, if I remember correctly), caterpillars remained haddapedders. :)

HarmNone the mommy

Originally posted by HarmNone

Originally posted by Demon Lord Kage
I don't like that.

In Klaiveneese, Tragedy is spelled Tragidy.

Oh, I fully understand. When my daughter was about two, she saw a caterpillar. When I told her what it was, she repeated "haddapedder". I pronounced the word for her again, and she said: "No. It is a haddapedder."

Thereafter, until she was old enough to realize her fallibility (at around 3, if I remember correctly), caterpillars remained haddapedders. :)

HarmNone the mommy

The fact that she gave up is a real tragidy.

Haddapedders are far cooler than caterpillars.

[Ben]

Originally posted by Demon Lord Kage
How's it different than say... the Oklahoma City Bombing?

The Oklahoma City Bombing was an attempt to free America, WTC was an attack by terrorists because America was supplying weapons and money to the genocide Israel is trying to commit in the middle east.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Ben

Originally posted by Demon Lord Kage
How's it different than say... the Oklahoma City Bombing?

The Oklahoma City Bombing was an attempt to free America, WTC was an attack by terrorists because America was supplying weapons and money to the genocide Israel is trying to commit in the middle east.

Well atleast someone realizes it wasn't 100% unprovoked.

[StrayRogue]

On topic, I wrote a letter to my local representative to have airport security tightened up (my mother flew to NY on the 27th, I think. It was the day after the plane that wasn't terrorist taken over crashed in the burbs somewhere).

Originally posted by StrayRogue

Originally posted by Ben

Originally posted by Demon Lord Kage
How's it different than say... the Oklahoma City Bombing?

The Oklahoma City Bombing was an attempt to free America, WTC was an attack by terrorists because America was supplying weapons and money to the genocide Israel is trying to commit in the middle east.

Dude, in one way or another, every bad thing America gets is provoked. We are the Evil Empire you know.

Well atleast someone realizes it wasn't 100% unprovoked.

[StrayRogue]

Yes but in Star Wars you guys were the rebels, it was we Brits who ran the Empire. Now if David Prose had kept his own voice, instead of that American, he would never had betrayed the Emperor and we'd still be in charge...bastards.

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Yes but in Star Wars you guys were the rebels, it was we Brits who ran the Empire. Now if David Prose had kept his own voice, instead of that American, he would never had betrayed the Emperor and we'd still be in charge...bastards.

I didn't care for Star Wars.

I only liked one Sci-Fi storyline, and that's Star Trek: The Next Generation.

Jean Luc Picard was French and the American Will Riker was only the second in command. I think that says volumes about the future.

The peaceful and refined will come out on top. The war-like and savage will never do better than second place.

Anyway, my favorite book series comes from your country. I am a total Harry Potthead. I think the whole "Englishmen are evil" is sort of fading away and being replaced by, "How charming."

Eddie Izzard is the greatest thing to happen to comedy... EVER.

[StrayRogue]

I'm a Moff Tarkin man myself. Though I am partial to the odd Trek now and then.

But you MUST adore Eddie Izzard.

[Bestatte]

Why is this night different from all other nights, asks Klaive, in a different phrasing.

The phrasing I used comes from the "fahr kashas" - or "Four Questions," asked by the youngest Jewish child at the dinner table all over the world on the first night of Passover. It is asked to begin the story of the Exodus, when Moses led his people out of Egypt to freedom.

An interesting irony, if you ask me.

But to answer Klaive's question: The significance of the Twin Tower situation on 9/11 was that our country, as a whole, was lackadasical and extremely smug in our confidence that *outside forces* would never, could never, invade our country. We lived with blinders on, and even the blinders were tinted a pretty pale shade of rose.

In the time it takes to inhale, we were proven wrong.

That is the significance, and why it touched so many, so deeply. I hope that helps.

Originally posted by Bestatte
Why is this night different from all other nights, asks Klaive, in a different phrasing.

The phrasing I used comes from the "fahr kashas" - or "Four Questions," asked by the youngest Jewish child at the dinner table all over the world on the first night of Passover. It is asked to begin the story of the Exodus, when Moses led his people out of Egypt to freedom.

An interesting irony, if you ask me.

But to answer Klaive's question: The significance of the Twin Tower situation on 9/11 was that our country, as a whole, was lackadasical and extremely smug in our confidence that *outside forces* would never, could never, invade our country. We lived with blinders on, and even the blinders were tinted a pretty pale shade of rose.

In the time it takes to inhale, we were proven wrong.

That is the significance, and why it touched so many, so deeply. I hope that helps.

Actually, that helps immensely... it's basically as I suspected.

You see, from the time I was old enough to realize that people waged wars and why, I was absolutely shocked that no one was attacking America. The more I learned about the world, the more confused I got... other countries should, by all logic, be laying seige to us. We live in a way that is an affront to their beliief systems...we attempt to police people who we have no true authority over, we stick our noses where they don't belong and we are nothing if not a serious threat to every other nation out there.

When September 11th happened, it didn't shock me. Maybe that's why my sympathy is so lacking. I had expected an attack for a very long time and frankly, I'm shocked it didn't happen sooner.

America is not somehow immune to damage. We are not invincible vs. any foe. Our country has been asking to get bitchslapped for 50 years and it finally got it.

The lives that were lost were a terrible waste and I regret that they were killed. But in every international hostile action, "innocent" people die.

US soldiers have reportedly gunned down hundreds of "innocent" Iraqi citizens. During Veitnam, many soldiers would burst into homes and massacre whole families who were completely unarmed. America caused the deaths of thousands of innnocent Japanese citizens when they dropped the bomb on Hiroshima.

In every conflict we've ever been in, we've caused unnecessary casualties and on September 11th, 2001 our bad karma came back to bite us in the ass.

The widespread reaction of shock and blinding anger in regard to that attack is one that would not be experienced by people in most other countries, because they lack the arrogance and short-sightedness to believe that they were untouchable... and because we did react that way as a whole, what else can be said about the United States except that we can dish it out, but we can't take it?

[Ben]

Klaive check out www.halturnershow.com

[Bestatte]

Klaive, regarding Vietnam...
A friend of mine back when I lived in Boston had been in 'Nam in the front lines as a "scout." He would enter villages with a few others in his unit to seek out and destroy any threat to the rest of the unit.

He was plagued with nighmares after returning home, became an alcoholic, and suffered from Agent Orange. He was also one of those individuals tested with LSD - supposedly it was being tested on certain groups of soldiers as some kind of treatment for something or other..

It's the nightmares and alcoholic hallucinations that always freaked me out. He explained that he would see a child, covered in thick clothing, leave his or her hut. A child of perhaps no older than 5. And he would have to kill the child. If he didn't, that child would rush at him, or his comrades, and fall to the ground, blowing up the entire group. The reason the child was covered in thick clothing was to hide the dynamite taped to his or her skin.

It was the Viet Cong who did this. Not the Americans. The Viet Cong used their own children as live bombs. And my friend had to kill these children in ordered to save himself and his unit. And the village that taped the bombs to that child.

That's some (but not all) of the reality of Vietnam.

My friend is now dead, by the way. Agent Orange and alcoholism got the best of him. As did they get the best of another friend of mine who died as a result of his own psychosis, caused by similar circumstances in Vietnam.

[Ravenstorm]

Bestatte is quite right. Unfortunately, so is Klaive. Vietnam was a horrid affair for everyone and the fucked up way the government went about it just made it worse. But what Klaive is probably referring to, even if he doesn't specifically know it, is the My Lai massacre.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mylai/mylai.htm

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/vietnam/trenches/mylai.html


Raven

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Bestatte
Why is this night different from all other nights, asks Klaive, in a different phrasing.

The phrasing I used comes from the "fahr kashas" - or "Four Questions," asked by the youngest Jewish child at the dinner table all over the world on the first night of Passover. It is asked to begin the story of the Exodus, when Moses led his people out of Egypt to freedom.

An interesting irony, if you ask me.

Umm... no.

It is asked after Mahgid.

The four questions (actually five) are asked after the telling of the exodus. They are asked traditionally to correlate the traditions with the Mahgid.

"Fahr kashas" is yiddish, and not my strong point. It is in reference to the four brothers from where we derive the "four" (five) questions.

Per topic-

I donated blood, money (to non-red-cross sources), and helped in a food and clothing drive.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Demon Lord Kage
[
Actually, that helps immensely... it's basically as I suspected.

You see, from the time I was old enough to realize that people waged wars and why, I was absolutely shocked that no one was attacking America. The more I learned about the world, the more confused I got... other countries should, by all logic, be laying seige to us. We live in a way that is an affront to their beliief systems...we attempt to police people who we have no true authority over, we stick our noses where they don't belong and we are nothing if not a serious threat to every other nation out there.

When September 11th happened, it didn't shock me. Maybe that's why my sympathy is so lacking. I had expected an attack for a very long time and frankly, I'm shocked it didn't happen sooner.

America is not somehow immune to damage. We are not invincible vs. any foe. Our country has been asking to get bitchslapped for 50 years and it finally got it.

The lives that were lost were a terrible waste and I regret that they were killed. But in every international hostile action, "innocent" people die.

US soldiers have reportedly gunned down hundreds of "innocent" Iraqi citizens. During Veitnam, many soldiers would burst into homes and massacre whole families who were completely unarmed. America caused the deaths of thousands of innnocent Japanese citizens when they dropped the bomb on Hiroshima.

In every conflict we've ever been in, we've caused unnecessary casualties and on September 11th, 2001 our bad karma came back to bite us in the ass.

The widespread reaction of shock and blinding anger in regard to that attack is one that would not be experienced by people in most other countries, because they lack the arrogance and short-sightedness to believe that they were untouchable... and because we did react that way as a whole, what else can be said about the United States except that we can dish it out, but we can't take it?

Dar,
Do yourself a huge favor and take some history classes.

Your knowledge of history is extremely weak and horribly biased.

Bias is inevitable when studying history to some extent, but you unfortunately are in some ways similar to Edge in being more than happy to ignore certain realities if it helps support your own viewpoints.

Read, study and learn some more before posting more about US and world history as if you actually know what you are talking about please?

If you have a question, please do ask, or an opinion, please make it, but don't go saying things as if they are simple facts and the entire story when that is far from the case.

[Bestatte]

Okay fine, so I got the sequence wrong. I mean jeez, it's a freaking 14-course meal with 7 glasses of wine, you expect me to remember which came first?

For the record though..my job for the Seder was making the Charoses. So, it was more like um.. 8 glasses of wine. Or maybe 9? I dunno. I was too drunk to pay attention to the count by the time we sat down for dinner.

[Tsa`ah]

Have you been to an actual Seder?

Four cups of wine are consumed. The fifth is not. Tradition.

The passover plate contains Karpas (usually parsley or celery), a dish of salt water (for dipping the Karpas), boiled or roasted egg, Maror (represented by horseradish), a leaf of lettuce, and Charoset (a fruit preserve made with wine and cinnamon). Of course Matzah is in there as well.

The seder is tradition, what you participated in was not a seder.

Apologies for the topic hijack.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah...and Charoset (a fruit preserve made with wine and cinnamon).

Charoses is a very common alternate spelling, used even on:

http://www.torah.org/advanced/haaros/5759/tzav.html

So let's just head off the 'more Jewish than you' arguments before they start. Even if it gets its own thread. It's even more futile to argue about than politics. More insulting too.

Raven

[Tsa`ah]

It's not a "more jewish than you argument". Merely pointing out the butchering of a tradition.

Originally posted by Skirmisher

Dar,
Do yourself a huge favor and take some history classes.

Your knowledge of history is extremely weak and horribly biased.

Bias is inevitable when studying history to some extent, but you unfortunately are in some ways similar to Edge in being more than happy to ignore certain realities if it helps support your own viewpoints.

Read, study and learn some more before posting more about US and world history as if you actually know what you are talking about please?

If you have a question, please do ask, or an opinion, please make it, but don't go saying things as if they are simple facts and the entire story when that is far from the case.

History sucks. America sucks. American History double sucks.

The End.