UAC+TWC+AMBUSH+ARMOR TRAINING

[GS4Clagg]

Hi,

Looking for info on UAC. I want to try it.

Do I need a shield? Can I go TWC? Can I just go barenuckled?

What kind of armors are you guys wearing? I'm currently in MBP.

Would like to hide and ambush effectively using UAC.

Thank you

[Warriorbird]

You don't need a shield. TWC can raise defense. Bareknuckled is legit (and how it goes for some of the Voln stuff), though the wearable gear helps a lot.

Ambushing as a Rogue with it is pretty amazing.

[droit]

You'd get a lot more DS from shield than TWC. You can learn a maneuver that mitigates the MM penalty from shields, too. TWC won't add any offensive power to UAC, but it would open the option of busting out TWC fist scythes when necessary.

[Haldrik]

1 rank of TWC adds +5 defense. stick with that. shield + shielded brawler is really good

You might not need shield tho. Plate armor + ambush + smart fighting and you will be good.

[Warriorbird]

You'd get a lot more DS from shield than TWC. You can learn a maneuver that mitigates the MM penalty from shields, too. TWC won't add any offensive power to UAC, but it would open the option of busting out TWC fist scythes when necessary.

Absolutely. TWC's really only an additional splash of defensive to the pure dodge mix.

[Warriorbird]

Doesn't TWC only add to DS when you are NOT using a shield, and only when you are in stances greater than offensive? I'm UAC warrior with a tower shield and shield brawler maneuver, in plate armor. I'm sure ambush is awesome from hiding, but I use MOC. Works great. I don't use a weapon at all, just gloves and boots. I bring out a fist scythe for berserking.

You're probably right. I only had a shield on my Rogue early on. No training in it.

[Cereal Killer]

They changed that 1 rank thing. You need .5x training in TWC for the defensive bonus. And 2x brawl, 0.5x TWC, 2x? dodge was enough to get my rogue to his 50s, when he shifted to shield (and was finally able to learn Shielded brawler).

[GS4Clagg]

Can you all go into the shield and shielded brawler a bit more? I'm about to fixskills into it. Do I need to train shield skill? Or just hold it and pick up the shielded brawler Cman?

[Cereal Killer]

It's in my opinion not worth it to go with a shield until your 50s. Up until that point, you cannot have rank five shielded brawler because you're not able to spend more than your level in a single shield skill. The points for shielded brawler add up to 50. With rank 5 shielded brawler, your MM hit will be -5, not ideal but workable. MM is what makes the difference between a one shot kill and a stun. By staying barehanded up until that point, you can keep your MM nice and high, bashing in the skulls of your prey.

[GS4Clagg]

It's in my opinion not worth it to go with a shield until your 50s. Up until that point, you cannot have rank five shielded brawler because you're not able to spend more than your level in a single shield skill. The points for shielded brawler add up to 50. With rank 5 shielded brawler, your MM hit will be -5, not ideal but workable. MM is what makes the difference between a one shot kill and a stun. By staying barehanded up until that point, you can keep your MM nice and high, bashing in the skulls of your prey.

Sorry to be dim. But will I need to train actual shield ranks in the skill goals? And if so how many? If not when and how does the option of the cman shielded brawler come into play.

Thanks you all so much for the input, it's been greatly helpful. I'm trying to knock the rust off. My 11 year old son has taken an interest in GS4, I have him on a free account and he decided a dwarf rogue and he's been trying UAC as well. So this could help both of us.

[elcidcannon]

Sorry to be dim. But will I need to train actual shield ranks in the skill goals? And if so how many? If not when and how does the option of the cman shielded brawler come into play.

Thanks you all so much for the input, it's been greatly helpful. I'm trying to knock the rust off. My 11 year old son has taken an interest in GS4, I have him on a free account and he decided a dwarf rogue and he's been trying UAC as well. So this could help both of us.

Awesome. Love it to hear when people get their kids involved :-)

[Cereal Killer]

Shield maneuvers are a relatively new thing. They are like Combat Maneuvers in that you get a point to spend for every rank you have invested in the skill. If you're still confused about them, look up Shield Use (https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Shield_Use) on the gswiki site.

A typical brawling ambush rogue training path would be:

2x Brawling
1-2x Combat Maneuvers
0.5x Two Weapon Combat
2x Ambush
1-2x Physical Fitness (Depending on society choice)
2x Dodging
2x Disarm Traps
2x Picking Locks
2x Stalking and Hiding
2x Perception

Harness Power: As needed, depending on society.
Spell Training Goals: Eventually hit 404 as points allow.

You can see there's some wiggle room there so that he can skimp on some ranks if he needs to. UAF, the brawling equivalent to AS, isn't the be all end all as it is with other attack, so being 2x CM isn't as crucial. With this plan, he'll be able to kill anything his level and pick his own boxes. If he doesn't want to pick his own boxes, then he can drop Disarm/Lockpick, move Perception to 1x, and pump up Dodging and CM or learn more spells.

For armor, he wants to be in armor as light as he feels comfortable with. My rogue was in robes until his 50s when I moved him to a nice set of double leathers I bought. This is in keeping with the goal of keeping his MM high.

[GS4Clagg]

Hey thanks for the help this far!

I see the best reduction for shield would be to 2x shield training and get the shielded brawler. A few questions.

Would it be best to go for a small shield?

Are any of you having success post 50 with no shield and light armor so that there is not any MM penalty?

Thanks for bearing with me.

[Enuch]

At 25 I don't do any shield I am pure open hands and don't have many problems at all, I either straight hide and leg ambush and then chest crit with a kick in the target is kneeling or head punch if laying down. If I am up hunting slightly I chill in defensive until it swings then hide and ambush, I have never used a shield with my dude and typically what gets me is spells or cmans, rarely does a weapon fell me

[StrayRogue]

Out of interest, is plate armor not working with UAC? What is to stop you getting wtfpwned when you miss/cock up?

[Haldrik]

They changed that 1 rank thing. You need .5x training in TWC for the defensive bonus. And 2x brawl, 0.5x TWC, 2x? dodge was enough to get my rogue to his 50s, when he shifted to shield (and was finally able to learn Shielded brawler).

I don't think this is true. It's 1 rank for +5 DS and .5x for +15. At least that's what Droit told me awhile ago and I remember confirming it.

[Haldrik]

Out of interest, is plate armor not working with UAC? What is to stop you getting wtfpwned when you miss/cock up?

What?

Plate armor works amazing. its only like -5 MM. If you miss then the plate armor protects you. Otherwise you have to go the vanish route or use something else as an opening so they won't swing back.

Missing isn't really the problem. It's not getting a stun off so they can attack back which can hurt.

[Cereal Killer]

I would have no problems going into plate armor if I had the points for it. It's just that with the above training plan, there just wasn't room for it for me. Being in Sunfist and prioritizing 2x PF and a few more than normal ranks of Harness Power may have also affected me. You could most likely fit it in if you abstained from picking your own boxes, but for me, that's half the fun of being a rogue.

[Viekn]

You could most likely fit it in if you abstained from picking your own boxes, but for me, that's half the fun of being a rogue.

I go back and forth on this. I really like being able to pick my own boxes. But I also really like twc and ambushing. And with the town locksmith being such an easy alternative to picking your own, it's sometimes kind of hard to justify when you've got a heavy TP training path.

[GS4Clagg]

Well, I thought plate armors were more of a no-no for UAC than they apparently are. I'm no picker. So I've got something like this.

80 Ranks Armor for MBP
2x Brawling
2x Ambush
2x Dodge
2x CM
1x PF
3x S&H
2x Perception
5 ranks MOC

With this there is no Shield training. Should I go 2x S&H and get Shield?

[Cereal Killer]

The reason I mixed shield use into my build was because I was tired of getting owned by bolts and arrows. In my current build, I'm 2x shield with no dodge, and working dodge in as I get points. I'm also doing fine with just 2x S&H, so if you want the additional defense you should be able to pick up shield.

[StrayRogue]

Yeah, 3x in S&H was always a waste.

[Enuch]

I am almost in chain mail at 25 and open UAC I can post skills in a moment for you if you would like a snap shot?

[Rhovan]

Yeah, 3x in S&H was always a waste.

I went 2x in S&H until cap, but 3x really helps in the Rift at least.

[GS4Clagg]

I am almost in chain mail at 25 and open UAC I can post skills in a moment for you if you would like a snap shot?


That would be great! Thanks!

[Enuch]

at level 26), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 111 27
Armor Use..........................| 144 44
Combat Maneuvers...................| 111 27
Brawling...........................| 156 56
Ambush.............................| 117 29
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 20 4
Physical Fitness...................| 151 51
Dodging............................| 152 52
Arcane Symbols.....................| 30 6
Harness Power......................| 30 6
Disarming Traps....................| 154 54
Picking Locks......................| 154 54
Stalking and Hiding................| 154 54
Perception.........................| 154 54
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 66 14

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 4

Not saying this is gospel but it has been working for me. Gives you an idea for open hands if it is something you wish to do, can tweak it to your liking to move training around for 2x ambush etc, I went hard on PT and Armor out the gate, and have slowed down to 1x just recently so I can pick up MOC and slowly build up my Ambush

[StrayRogue]

What purpose does MOC serve? Just the FoF stuff?

[droit]

UAC mstrikes are super effective.

[droit]

For example:


You concentrate intently, focusing all your energies.
You explode into a fury of strikes and ripostes, moving with a singular purpose and will!
You attempt to jab a Vvrael destroyer!
You have decent positioning against a Vvrael destroyer.
UAF: 660 vs UDF: 464 = 1.422 * MM: 87 + d100: 18 = 141
... and hit for 2 points of damage!
Deft jab to neck.
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup kick attack!
You attempt to kick a Vvrael destroyer!
You have good positioning against a Vvrael destroyer.
UAF: 650 vs UDF: 464 = 1.400 * MM: 87 + d100: 83 = 204
... and hit for 57 points of damage!
Rapid scissor kick catches neck and pulls the Vvrael destroyer off-balance!
The Vvrael destroyer is knocked into a sitting position!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup punch attack!
You attempt to punch a Vvrael destroyer!
You have excellent positioning against a Vvrael destroyer.
UAF: 660 vs UDF: 454 = 1.453 * MM: 108 + d100: 62 = 219
... and hit for 62 points of damage!
Fist drives through ribs and into chest! Cold hands, meet warm heart.
You attempt to grapple a Vvrael destroyer!
You have excellent positioning against a Vvrael destroyer.
UAF: 660 vs UDF: 446 = 1.479 * MM: 111 + d100: 71 = 235
... and hit for 47 points of damage!
Powerful tug pulls right hip, and leg, free of the socket!
The Vvrael destroyer wails with rage as he crumples to the ground! A viscous black liquid sprays out from his severed right leg thrashing on the ground!


** Necrotic energy from your russet leather gloves overflows into you! **

You feel energized!
You attempt to kick a Vvrael destroyer!
You have excellent positioning against a Vvrael destroyer.
UAF: 675 vs UDF: 402 = 1.679 * MM: 110 + d100: 64 = 248
... and hit for 118 points of damage!
Amazing kick goes through abdomen without slowing, sending stomach flying out through the back!
The Vvrael destroyer writhes in black agony and dies.
You feel the unnatural surge of necrotic power wane away.

Your series of strikes and ripostes leaves you winded and out of position.
Roundtime: 8 sec.

[Enuch]

yup I am building up my MOC for when I am too lazy to hide and just want to rip faces on things, you can use MOC at 5 ranks (even though its not considered a focused attack) even with one target unfocused and it will hit them twice, at least last time I toyed with it on my monk you could. It is quite rediculous.