spreading the burden and finding trust

[Aethor]

Almost 20 years ago I started playing this game and became a part of the community.
i've played rogues warriors, clerics, sorcerers, rangers, wizards, had a ton of fun.
But after Briarmoon Cove, a couple of long timers started to look into the end result of globalizing and acquiring lich for the community.
Lets be honest here. A week without lnet changed your life and changed a festival.
Tillmen has trust issues with sharing all of lich with one person, he also has trust issues with hosting lich on a us based server
I tried to resolve this today and offered 3 servers 2 west coast 1 east coast interlinked through AWS(Amazon Web Services) which could of easily hosted lich, lichproject.org, lnet, player shop data, the repository and anything else game related.
Lich is a game evolved product created by Shaelun looked after and tended to by Tillmen.

Not intending any bad luck, but what happens to our community if tillmen walks out of his building and gets hit by a bus.
Syphaer and I talked about this, it would take weeks and years of coding to rebuild what is already in place.
Daiyon and I talked about this, we could globalize lich, lichproject.org, playershop data, have our own git repository of scripts that all coders could work on, a place to host lnet, and place to host a game balanced voice server such as mumble,teamspeak,gamevox or Ventrilo,

We could make 5 to 6 long time players who have money and are able to do something should something happen and make things happen with something that is already established. where any one of those players could pay the bill with his credit card for months, years in advance. for what it would cost in IO requests, data transfer and hourly hosting rates. So that we never have the problem that we have now.

Currently lnet is on a backup server with no repository, and no playershops data. and if that crashes we are out of lnet again, now I'm not posting this as malicious harm but as a way to look out for our community of players so they will have lnet, lich, repository data, and player shops data for years to come. My only intent is provide for our community and look towards the future.

what we need is a centralized US based server with with redundancy and failover protection, and the lich files, repository files, playershop data files, lnet files and website hosting files all in one location that 5 to 6 people of long term player history be appointed to pay the monthly bill via multi access IAM billing, monitor server status monitoring. In a sense a group of people that would be responsible for lich & lnet for the future, because tillmen trusts no one. not a single person, perhaps he can trust a group of long term players.

again I am not posting this to be mean but to protect a future of lnet, lich, and lichproject.org, playershop data and repository data

[everan]

Can it run on Amazon AWS? Or another virtual server?

[Fallen]

Ultimately, this is Tillmen's decision. It sounds as if you've already spoken to him directly regarding this issue.

[rolfard]

We have all inadvertently provided tillmen with an unknown bank of data about each and every one of us (depending on if he logs the PMs). Do we trust more than 1 man with all of that power? We don't even know what his kryptonite is!

I feel this must be amended (after the negative repper) to state that I do trust Tillmen or I wouldn't be using the service...

[Nephelem]

I would feel better knowing there was a plan in place should something ever happen to Tillmen. I think he has shown himself to be a fantastic and trustworthy steward of those services and should be the one to determine the shape and details of that plan. I would be happy to donate in order to fund something that had his support and I suspect quite a few others would as well.

[rolfard]

I would feel better knowing there was a plan in place should something ever happen to Tillmen. I think he has shown himself to be a fantastic and trustworthy steward of those services and should be the one to determine the shape and details of that plan. I would be happy to donate in order to fund something that had his support and I suspect quite a few others would as well.

http://www.quotesforbros.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/awesome-joker-quotes-you-know-what-i-noticed.jpg

[Donquix]

Can it run on Amazon AWS? Or another virtual server?

It's already running on a VPS

[Geijon Khyree]

A big no thanks on any of that. If Tillmen goes, it goes with him. That's the nature of gaming. Rebuild the code.

[Methais]

A big no thanks on any of that. If Tillmen goes, it goes with him. That's the nature of gaming. Rebuild the code.

The game probably wouldn't survive long enough if Lich went away.

[SashaFierce]

A big no thanks on any of that. If Tillmen goes, it goes with him. That's the nature of gaming. Rebuild the code.

Are you Tillmen? No? Okay, STFU.

Edit: I'm not saying I want anyone but Tillmen to run Lich, but Tillmen is more than capable of speaking for himself.

[Haldrik]

First, fuck you Aethor. Lich isn't going to die, even if Tillmen walks out. As you may have noticed, Lich was fully functional during the down time. It was ;lichnet and associate scripts that went down.

Tillmen is a beast and has proven his worth 10000x. He absolutely deserves our trust. There are lots and lots and lots of security concerns I have with a ruby script running on our systems. It essentially has access to everything. I sure as shit would not trust you or a conglomerate of people to take charge of the systems. The less, the better. Why fuck with a good thing? Things are running fine.

Second, the down time. It wasn't that big a deal. Lich still worked. All the core systems worked. So what did we really lose? ;lich features like ;chat and ;spellup?, ;waggle? Honestly, who cares. If anything, that showed me that Lich will continue to work long after the servers go down. As long as lich is stable without the servers and we have full ruby functionality, that's what really counts.

So here's an idea... Play the game like it was meant to be played. If you really can't handle ;chat being down for 4 days, go buy a fucking crystal amulet. Go talk to people in person. Who cares if waggle is down, give everyone 4 hours of spells. I mean... seriously? This rant for nothing but ;chat going down?

Go back to your Fshop ranting.

And P.S. I wouldn't trust you to code Hello World! in QBasic.

[zennsunni]

Not sure I want Aethor in charge of lich after debugging one of his scripts the other day...

[Velfi]

And P.S. I wouldn't trust you to code Hello World! in QBasic.

http://i.imgur.com/eiXEtOS.gif

[GS4Pirate]

And P.S. I wouldn't trust you to code Hello World! in QBasic.

Kind of like you can't be trusted in an auction?

[Wrathbringer]

I don't trust people who don't understand that could've is a contraction not the combination of could and of.

[Methais]

I don't trust people who don't understand that could've is a contraction not the combination of could and of.


http://youtu.be/1vQe4ym-ixQ

[Pyro]

Just let Tillmen do what Tillmen does man, Lich is fine. Jesus, ;chat goes down for a few days and everyone freaks the fuck out and starts screaming "The sky is falling!". No, really, it isn't.

[Methais]

Now I'm wondering what things would be like if ;chat was a Ventrilo channel instead.

[Fallen]

Now I'm wondering what things would be like if ;chat was a Ventrilo channel instead.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq3LovOEj5c

[Methais]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq3LovOEj5c

This makes a lot of sense. But what would people who don't play sorcerers sound like?

[elcidcannon]

I was actually really impressed at how everything worked without Lnet. Simu's twitter feed definitely had a lot to do with it, as well as there being an AIM blast group.

I think the biggest downsides of losing the servers would be updates to the map database and access to new scripts (although those could always be posted here to be turned into a .lic file ourselves.

Without Lich, the game would probably die. Lucky for us, Lich lives on each of our computers and the installation files/instructions will be easy to re-host if something happens to Tillmen/the servers. Without Lnet, the game will survive. There will be much less networking to be had and the merchant folders here will probably pick up. Oh and crystal amulets will no longer become pawnshop fodder.

[Fallen]

This makes a lot of sense. But what would people who don't play sorcerers sound like?

Assuming they're wizards:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YersIyzsOpc

[Methais]

Assuming they're wizards:


http://youtu.be/hq11g98dvZ4

Fixed.

[Fallen]

Bwahahahahahaha

[Methais]

I can't stop laughing at how accurate this is, right down to "I'm gonna run away I swear you'll never see me again!"

I wonder if any wizards (besides me of course) shoved a remote up their ass in protest.

I also forgot how that blanket looks like it's really attacking him when he takes it off and it's still all wrapped around his head like some weird octopus monster.

The Internet is the best place on the Internet.

[Taernath]

I ;trust Tillmen.

[Methais]

Every coin in the game should say IN TILLMEN WE TRUST.

[everan]

It's already running on a VPS

Good, so it's probably portable then. I suggested AWS because I imagine they have fairly robust security, better able to withstand the juvenile DOS attacks that seem to pop up every once in a while.

I used to host our email & website on a local web farm but finally moved our email over to O365 because the locals would get compromised every once in a while, usually turned in to some email slave. Invariably, we were the ones that had to tell them that their mail server was down. I can't afford to have our email down for half a day. I love buying local and all, but for mission critical you can't beat the big virtuals.

[Silvean]

I'm not sure what this thread is about. The first post is strangely written, so I got scared and stopped reading. I did want to share this McNuggets video though.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bemgJDD75ng

[Aethor]

But none, and I mean none of you got the picture I was painting, I don't want to run or host lich, I don't even want to be a part of the group of 5 or 6 people who would be responsible for lich, and I will probably continue to play Gemstone, even if lnet, shop data, and the repository never comes back up. I just want to provide for tillmen for what he cant seem to provide for himself. 1 to 3 fully functioning servers, so that everything is capable of running and staying up to date.

I musta got 5 neg rep comments for this bullshit, and then I got 5 emails from others offering to help tillmen to provide for what he needs.
Go fuck yourselves, to the neg reppers who cant even read. and to the group of people that offered assistance, talk to tillmen.
and as far as trust goes, We trust complicitly like a bunch of damn sheep waiting to be slaughtered, but tillmen trusts not a single one of us. go figure?

[Fallen]

My favorite part is when the next car pulls through.

[0zymandius]

My favorite part is when the next car pulls through.

"Yeah, Hi, I was wondering if you're serving McNuggets yet?"

[Fallen]

But none, and I mean none of you got the picture I was painting, I don't want to run or host lich, I don't even want to be a part of the group of 5 or 6 people who would be responsible for lich, and I will probably continue to play Gemstone, even if lnet, shop data, and the repository never comes back up. I just want to provide for tillmen for what he cant seem to provide for himself. 1 to 3 fully functioning servers, so that everything is capable of running and staying up to date.

I musta got 5 neg rep comments for this bullshit, and then I got 5 emails from others offering to help tillmen to provide for what he needs.
Go fuck yourselves, to the neg reppers who cant even read. and to the group of people that offered assistance, talk to tillmen.
and as far as trust goes, We trust complicitly like a bunch of damn sheep waiting to be slaughtered, but tillmen trusts not a single one of us. go figure?

For posterity.

[Whirlin]

Here's a tl;dr:
Aethor wants to help Tillmen with shit so there's redundancy when Tillmen is away, and shit hits the fan with the shit servers.
But Aethor is lazy, and doesn't want to be the only person also accountable, so wants more people to join him in being Tillmen backup.
Even though Tillmen said many times that he doesn't trust anyone, cause everyone is a dumb fuckup, and then the world may learn his true intention of using Lich to download all of our e-sex logs for 'science'.

[Silvean]

"Yeah, Hi, I was wondering if you're serving McNuggets yet?"

That guy from Falling Down is in the second car.

I wish I could assume my ultimate form. I would do so in the parking lot of Simucon. You'd all be crowded around the tray of little milks at the complimentary breakfast buffet and then my cry would bellow forth: I AM BECOME MECHA-SILVEAN.

[Mogonis]

We pool our money so Tillmen can commission an AI in his likeness.

http://www.toptenz.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/lawnmower-man.jpg

[Silvean]

Even though Tillmen said many times that he doesn't trust anyone, cause everyone is a dumb fuckup, and then the world may learn his true intention of using Lich to download all of our e-sex logs for 'science'.

You know, I haven't contributed a single e-sex log for him. How much Lich do I get to use before I have to let him watch me in RL?

[Whirlin]

You know, I haven't contributed a single e-sex log for him. How much Lich do I get to use before I have to let him watch me in RL?
7, you get 7 liches

[Silvean]

7, you get 7 liches

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/b9/8d/a2/b98da20f659cf45d7d8eefc0e64336e7.jpg

[m444w]

But none, and I mean none of you got the picture I was painting, I don't want to run or host lich, I don't even want to be a part of the group of 5 or 6 people who would be responsible for lich, and I will probably continue to play Gemstone, even if lnet, shop data, and the repository never comes back up. I just want to provide for tillmen for what he cant seem to provide for himself. 1 to 3 fully functioning servers, so that everything is capable of running and staying up to date.

I musta got 5 neg rep comments for this bullshit, and then I got 5 emails from others offering to help tillmen to provide for what he needs.
Go fuck yourselves, to the neg reppers who cant even read. and to the group of people that offered assistance, talk to tillmen.


Your language is confrontational and insulting.



and as far as trust goes, We trust complicitly like a bunch of damn sheep waiting to be slaughtered, but tillmen trusts not a single one of us. go figure?


Stop being a child and read the fucking LOC.

Lich.rb isn't some blackbox compiled program, you can read and grok every line in there, turn off autoupdates and download and re-read it everytime the version changes.

Trust is a two-way responsibility.

Tillmen has nearly a decade of trust from the community at this point, and you can't even lay out a reasonable counterargument to your claims that he doesn't trust US-based hosting (which I've never seen posted anywhere, which is besides the point).

Besides, who is going to get commit to master rights on this "globalized" version? How does the Lich Council(TM) decide that? Who does the code reviews to make sure nothing malicious is commited? Who chose Github? Why not Gitlab where we could have our own Git server completely controlled by the hive-mind? Why AWS and not Heroku/ Digital Ocean/whatever else? Who's going to be responsible for maintaining the Docker image if we want to use AWS? Are we going to use Docker?

My point is, a group of 5 random long-term GS players can't even decide if wizards "deserved" a nerf or not, no way in hell are they likely to actually be able to effectively pull something like this off.

[zennsunni]

[QUOTE=but tillmen trusts not a single one of us. go figure?[/QUOTE]

Have you logged onto lnet chat? Shit, I wouldn't trust us either!

[Donquix]

We are a bunch of assholes. For serious.

[Astray]

We are a bunch of assholes. For serious.

Super serious.

[Haldrik]

But none, and I mean none of you got the picture I was painting, I don't want to run or host lich, I don't even want to be a part of the group of 5 or 6 people who would be responsible for lich, and I will probably continue to play Gemstone, even if lnet, shop data, and the repository never comes back up. I just want to provide for tillmen for what he cant seem to provide for himself. 1 to 3 fully functioning servers, so that everything is capable of running and staying up to date.

I musta got 5 neg rep comments for this bullshit, and then I got 5 emails from others offering to help tillmen to provide for what he needs.
Go fuck yourselves, to the neg reppers who cant even read. and to the group of people that offered assistance, talk to tillmen.
and as far as trust goes, We trust complicitly like a bunch of damn sheep waiting to be slaughtered, but tillmen trusts not a single one of us. go figure?

We all got your picture. It's just total bullshit so everyone rejected it.

Think of it this way. Tillmen is 100,000x smarter then you. If it was that easy to just roll up back up servers, maybe he would. Maybe it's not easy. Maybe there is system limitations for doing backups. Maybe he would have to recode lich. Who the fuck knows. Because, again, he's 100,000x smarter then you. Stop meddling in shit you don't understand. Or don't be a twat about it. Maybe ask politely, "Hey Tillmen, why don't we have back up servers?" or something along the lines of not being a twat.

You don't even fucking understand gemstone after playing 20 years. Come fucking on man. You literally ;chatted the other day that damage padding prevented wound stacking. Are you just fucking high 24/7? Why should anyone ever trust anything you want to do or say?

[elcidcannon]

Super serious.

Cereally

[Soulance]

We are a bunch of assholes. For serious.
Hey! You spoke for myself!!

[Ltlprprincess]

Now I'm wondering what things would be like if ;chat was a Ventrilo channel instead.

It would be obnoxious.

[Astray]

It would be obnoxious.

Pretty sure it's what Hell would sound like.

[Methais]

My point is, a group of 5 random long-term GS players can't even decide if wizards "deserved" a nerf or no

I just want to state for the record that wizards didn't deserve a nerf.

Wand/scroll hunting monks deserve the nerfiest of nerfs though. Because because.

[Pyro]

We all squabble over the dumbest shit, neg rep each other like children for no reason and generally just act like fucking idiots half the time. I wouldn't trust Lich in our hands even if it's backups had backups. Maybe if we all started acting like responsible, logical people 90% of the time, Tillmen might trust us more, but honestly, over the years, I've gotten this "we're all fucked up in the head and this is what I do to escape that" vibe from most of the people who play, myself included. I'll probably get the shit flamed out of me for saying this but that'll just prove my point even more.

[Fallen]

We all squabble over the dumbest shit, neg rep each other like children for no reason and generally just act like fucking idiots half the time. I wouldn't trust Lich in our hands even if it's backups had backups. Maybe if we all started acting like responsible, logical people 90% of the time, Tillmen might trust us more, but honestly, over the years, I've gotten this "we're all fucked up in the head and this is what I do to escape that" vibe from most of the people who play, myself included. I'll probably get the shit flamed out of me for saying this but that'll just prove my point even more.

I think the majority of this thread is people agreeing with this sentiment.

[Methais]

Are you saying this thread should run lnet?

[Fallen]

Are you saying this thread should run lnet?
http://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Christopher-McDonald-No.gif

[Neovik1]

I don't think I would hand the keys to someone that 435s 50+ people and refers to it as RP. Just my opinion.

In Tillmen we trust!!!

[Methais]

I don't think I would hand the keys to someone that 435s 50+ people and refers to it as RP. Just my opinion.

In Tillmen we trust!!!

Who did that so I can buy them a beer?

[elcidcannon]

I don't trust people who don't shart in my mouth.

we get it, you love the taste of sharts.

[Sjoldamn]

[quote=Tillmen
The explanation from the host for the last downtime is as follows:

The cause of the downtime was due to a damaged CPU in one of our nodes. We had to shutdown said node with the damaged CPU immediately to prevent further damage, including data loss. Our datacenter failed to replace the damaged part in a short time, hence the unexpected and prolonged downtime.

The CPU has been replaced with a better part and all operations are functioning normally as of now. We have implemented measures to prevent such issues from happening again in the future.
So.. um... it's nice to know that this won't happen again, like right now for instance.

The server is still unreachable, but I've put lnet (not the repository and websites) up on what we'll call a "backup server" for now.[/quote]

I trust Tillmen, as much as one can trust an unknown person on the internet with a solid reputation. That said, looking at the answer he was given, I'm not so sure I trust his hosting provider.

[m444w]

That happens from time to time with all providers. 100% uptime is impossible.

Github had a fire at their one of their data centers and was down for several hours just a week ago and that's a ~10 billion dollar company.

[Donquix]

Sure, host downs are absolutely a thing, but the explanation is odd.

A CPU causing data loss is...weirdish. And taking days to replace anything is pretty unacceptable.

[Geijon Khyree]

I posted early in this thread, but all of the points presented are valid as to why this is silly. Lich works without lnet. I'd not want 5-6 people having access to this. Tillmen is just fine. All of the names listed who would take over basically just rely on the [Merchant] channel and ROFL would you trust them with this.


Are you Tillmen? No? Okay, STFU

OK Fleurs. I get it, but it's only obvious because people said exactly what I did in more words, but I'm the STFU focus. Get over it.

[Sjoldamn]

That happens from time to time with all providers. 100% uptime is impossible.

Github had a fire at their one of their data centers and was down for several hours just a week ago and that's a ~10 billion dollar company.


Sure, host downs are absolutely a thing, but the explanation is odd.

A CPU causing data loss is...weirdish. And taking days to replace anything is pretty unacceptable.

100% uptime is impossible, yes. But we're living in a world when your uptime is defined by how many nines you can place AFTER the decimal point. 99.9%, 99.999%, etc.

Having a fire in a data center, and having shit back up in a few hours; That's a company who has a disaster recovery plan in place. Losing a CPU and taking down everything on that server? For days? That's a company that's showing a lack of experience.

We're also living in a world where even a $5 a month plan gets backed up nightly with most companies that are at least decent. You pull the backups, load the VPSes (does a plural of that even exist yet?) onto other hardware, and swallow the performance hit until you can get the hardware back up and running.

I'm not criticizing Tilllmen, but his host is showing some serious "needs improvement" areas. But I don't trust that a bus couldn't just hit Tillmen one day; Bus drivers are maniacs.

[Aethor]

ive put up lichproject.info and am working from basics to restore everything, ive sent all information to tillmen via PM here on PC
but I have this sneaking suspicion just a sneaking suspicion that he will shut it down, turn it off and move on, even tho digital ocean is one of the worlds foremost VPN server supplies with never a ddos attack that wasn't thwarted
I have felt this way since the site and everything went offline originally, I think tillmen is leaving GS
and only running lnet on his home computer until he finds someone who can take it over

this is what I sent tillmen :

I have created everything you need to move everything back online and mirrored everything from the old site to the new site with name servers and domain registration

digital ocean
account info for digital ocean username bbwhited@icloud.com ps ********
server up and running at 162.243.78.157
user: ********
pw: ********
webmail,nginx,php,webmin, Ubuntu, MySQL, sendmail, python, perl, curl, gzip, git
all files have been uploaded
created subdomains at 1and1.com for all subs, repo, ps, lnet and so on, all pointing at localhost 162.243.78.157
everything is setup and bill is paid for as long as you want it, you can even pay by paypal

1and1.com registration information
user: ********
pw: *********
everything is setup and running and waiting for you to take it over and do as you wish

[Aethor]

had few requests for a TS3 server so we have one now

162.243.110.80
password no password
need a moderator for this service

[drauz]

had few requests for a TS3 server so we have one now

ip 162.243.78.157
password GS4
need a moderator for this service

Mumble is better, but who am I to complain.

[Niomar]

Or just use the free and awesome Discord server. Excellent text and voice chat for gamers.

https://discord.gg/0pA7qEv6rnUHVkJa