Backlash and Kranar

[edge]

I am posting this before I read responses to my outburst of being called a fag...

Why do I think Backlash is a piece of shit? Because...

Backlash would pass you on the highway if you was broke down, I would not even if it was Backlash.

Backlash would watch you get beaten to death, I would help out that pussy even if it meant I would get hurt.

Backlash is an American that is Anti-American because of the Iraq war. He must have piece of shit parents to produce a child that is a worthless piece of shit like him. I will tell this to your face and your parents face. But you are a pussy and would be to scared to confront me in person. Your parents produced a Anti-American flag burning person that loves to see Americans die in Iraq.

He can call a person that has issues with gays a fag behind a pc screen. We all know he would never say that to my face, because he knows I would hit him. That is just to personal for me not to do something about.

I am a man, but Backlash is just a child. I understand this. But a worthless piece of shit is a worthless piece of shit. Maybe his father had a wet dream and his mother rolled in it. But that is no excuse for being that way when you was raised in the states with all these freedoms. Burn a flag in front of me and see what happens.

Now Kranar does have a excuse. He is Arabic that thinks Arabics should be slaughtered for whatever reasons in Iraq. Plus he lives in Canada and we all know France has a major influence upon Canada. So he has a excuse for being non-American. I am still pissed at Kranar for his changes after Sept 11th. But we found out where he stood after that. God, bro. You was suppose to be so many peoples friends to turn on us like that. Me and others consider you family just to have you betray us like that. Many of us here on the PC feel this way. Thanks.

Hate me, love me. I don't give a fuck. I will not stop loving life, family and my country just because people want to knock us. Mess with the best, die like the rest. Iraq found out. We will not stand by and let people fly planes into our buildings and kill civilians. But hey. iraq proved they love killing people that can't defend themselves. Just like Backlash loves seeing it.

[Edited on 9-7-2003 by Edaarin]

Wow, after reading that, I have a newfound respect for Backlash and Kranar.

[Skirmisher]

It may be about time to up that Paxil dosage there Edge.

[StrayRogue]

That entire post, edges' blind belief, is exactly why the entire world pretty much hates America.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by edge
Mess with the best, die like the rest. Iraq found out. We will not stand by and let people fly planes into our buildings and kill civilians.

Hey dumbass; Iraq and Afghanistan are TWO seperate countries. Iraq had nothing to do directly with 911, you retard. What did Iraq do to "mess" with the US?

[Edited on 9-7-2003 by Edaarin]

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
That entire post, edges' blind belief, is exactly why the entire world pretty much hates America.

God almighty.

Quit the incredible over generalizing.

It only makes you at least as idiotic as those you are poorly attempting to ridicule.

Edit: Change that to more idiotic.

[Edited on 9-7-2003 by Skirmisher]

[edge]

My Grandmother asked me how I would feel if my son was over there and died in the war...

I said this. I would be proud if my son died fighting to help people that would NOT defend themselves. I am sorry, but Backlash thinks that is dishonoerable. I don't care for what reasons we went there. But if we made Iraa safer or better place then we was right for going over there.

Only heartless people would think sitting on the sideline watching people being killed nonstop and doing nothing are the worthless people in the world. If you saw someone being raped, would you just walk by? Yep, most would because the are pussies. But I would die defending someone. What greater honor in life could you do then trade your life for anothers defense? Yep. bash me pussies and show your true colors like Backlash.

[Scott]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
That entire post, edges' blind belief, is exactly why the entire world pretty much hates America.

I hate when people make stupid comments like this. You sound so stupid making generalizations like this.

[edge]

<Hey dumbass; Iraq and Afghanistan are TWO seperate countries. Iraq had nothing to do directly with 911, you retard. What did Iraq do to "mess" with the US? FUCK ALL you dumb hick bastard.>

If you believe this then you are a fucking total retard. It's been proven that Saddam would pay any suicide bombers family 25k if they did a suicide bombing in Isreal. Now you think he is innocent? You are a dumb.

[Edited on 9-7-2003 by edge]

[StrayRogue]

Hey skirmisher, it is a generalization. But a true one at that.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Hey skirmisher, it is a generalization. But a true one at that.
It's true that you and all those you spoke for think that?

Well thats just sad then isnt it?

And here I thought you liked to call us ignorant.

Look inward my friend.

[edge]

<Hey skirmisher, it is a generalization. But a true one at that.>

Only a true idiot would get off on all the people Saddam killed like you do.

[Edited on 9-7-2003 by Edaarin]

[Artha]

No, it's not.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Gemstone101

Originally posted by StrayRogue
That entire post, edges' blind belief, is exactly why the entire world pretty much hates America.

I hate when people make stupid comments like this. You sound so stupid making generalizations like this.

Hey, I quote from experience: Uk, Germany, France, Canada, Austrailia, the entire Middle East (bar israel), all pretty much dislikes America. Its nothing personal.

As for for evidence: I speak to peopel from nearly all the above countries (except the middle east for obvious reasons), and the consensus is pretty much the same. You pissed off alot of countries when you just ignored the UN. Fortunately, not all the countries in the UN have such a blanket propaganda machine as the US. The people make their own minds up. But hey, disagree. Then come to my country and see for yourselves.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by edge
<Hey skirmisher, it is a generalization. But a true one at that.>

Only a true idiot would get off on all the people Saddam killed like you do.

Only a true idiot would get off on all the people America killed like you do.

I do not know. I dispise war and murder. You do not. You have posted numerous times how glorious this all is. How they deserved it. In Vietnam, you'd be one of these soldiers who'd burn villages of innocents just to be sure the NVA weren't there. Ever seen Casualties of War?

[Edited on 9-7-2003 by Edaarin]

[Skirmisher]

You no longer have a country.

We voted to absorb you into the US.

You are state number 52 right after Canada.

Congratulations!

Now you will unfortunately have to move in 30 days as we shall be installing a new Disney theme park upon that location.

Have a nice day.:D

[Ravenstorm]

It would probably be more accurate to say that a large percentage of people in the other countries dislike the American government right now. They aren't alone. A large percentage of Americans dislike the American government right now.

I just hope that come next year's elections, the percentage is large enough to replace it with something else.

Raven

[StrayRogue]

Hate was perhaps not the best word. A grudging dislike. I do not hate America. Most of my friends do not hate America. Most Americans I talk too I like. Its the ones like edge that remind me though, why our papers are filled with anti-american sentiments, why most of our political discussions end with American generally being the culprit or perpetrator of the initial problems (whatever they may be). No, hate is wrong. I try not to hate anyone. But blame is attached to America often.

But again, I invite a single person to come here. Its very different to your country apparently. I'd say its a lot more honest.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
It would probably be more accurate to say that a large percentage of people in the other countries dislike the American government right now.

Thats pretty much exactly what I was trying to say. Its only idiots like Edge I'd say I openly pity.

[edge]

If you have the power to stop horrific acts and do nothing, are you in the right? Seems Backlash and his followers think so.

I think even thought Bush lied about the reasons we went into Iraq, we did make a change for the better in the world.

It's like walking past a person being murdered or raped. I know most would do this and call the police instead of trying to help, I would not. But you should be shamed when someone does something and you bash them for it.

Now that the US has tried to raise the standard. We should do something about North Korea. They have done human right violations like Iraq did, if not worse.

But the UN members like France. Germany and others think we should allow rape, murder and child labor to happen because it helps their economy. But now the US has taken a step in the right direction, I think, we should now keep the moral standards at this high note. Let the world know. We will protect you. But I fear we will not though. But I would die and would be proud seeing my son die defending people that can't defend themselves. Giving your life for trying to protect the weak is the greatest honor I can think of.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by StrayRogue

But again, I invite a single person to come here. Its very different to your country apparently. I'd say its a lot more honest.

Ok, I'm going to give you a shot to retract such a naive claim.

I surely will not claim the US govt is 100% honest with even a single country in the world. I know you will not claim your country is.

Do you want me to give you a list of underhanded dirty dealings of any country you will claim allegiance with?

Lets not be childish. Every country lies. Ever single one.

The US is just the biggest right now and so of course the biggest target.

To think otherwise is foolish.

[edge]

<In Vietnam, you'd be one of these soldiers who'd burn villages of innocents just to be sure the NVA weren't there. Ever seen Casualties of War?>

Your the evil bastard that would sit there as Saddam any with a different opinion. You would sit there as they killed a child because they was the son of someone that you killed for a different opinion.

[Edited on 9-7-2003 by edge]

[Edited on 9-7-2003 by Edaarin]

[edge]

I would give my life trying to save yours. Without a thought. Now who is the evil fuck here? You are a dumb fucking idiot. I would not let someone kill you. You would let them kill me. I fear not death, I fear life more than anything. But hey, try and make me sound like a child killer. You are the one that loves it when you defend people like Saddam.

[edge]

You openly pity me for putting such a high value on life? I think you need to rethink that flag-burner.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by edge
If you have the power to stop horrific acts and do nothing, are you in the right? Seems Backlash and his followers think so.

I think even thought Bush lied about the reasons we went into Iraq, we did make a change for the better in the world.

It's like walking past a person being murdered or raped. I know most would do this and call the police instead of trying to help, I would not. But you should be shamed when someone does something and you bash them for it.

Now that the US has tried to raise the standard. We should do something about North Korea. They have done human right violations like Iraq did, if not worse.

But the UN members like France. Germany and others think we should allow rape, murder and child labor to happen because it helps their economy. But now the US has taken a step in the right direction, I think, we should now keep the moral standards at this high note. Let the world know. We will protect you. But I fear we will not though. But I would die and would be proud seeing my son die defending people that can't defend themselves. Giving your life for trying to protect the weak is the greatest honor I can think of.

Excuse me, but isn't it true that women in rape prevention classes (PS we don't have those here because we don't need them) are told to scream "Fire" because "help" does fuck all to move an American on the street into action?

Does not Germany and France have less crime (% wise) than your country?

Doesn't your country have an incredibly high death by crime rate? For God's sake, look at what you are saying. Police and look after your own country, before sticking your nose in somewhere else. People are one to believe in whatever they choose. You truly feel Afghanistan went to war with America, did the 911 attack, simply out of nowhere? You really, honestly think America had done nothing to their people to make them do such a heinious act?

Please, wake up.

[Scott]

Yes please wake up.

England has the highest crime rate of any country.

[Edaarin]

And the editing begins...stay tuned...

[StrayRogue]

This is why I don't argue with "patriots". This is why I don't want to come to your country.

Yes, Skirmisher, as someone pointed out, every country is in it for themselves, in essence. America has the ability to bully other countries into doing what they want however. The issue with France is an example of this.

My final comment on this will be to you though edge. You are truley naive if you think America went to war with Iraq for humanitarian reasons. You went to war, your son would have died for one thing, and one thing only. Money.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by edge
You openly pity me for putting such a high value on life? I think you need to rethink that flag-burner.

Umm...Edge dear...if he's not in the US he can burn our flag anytime he wants to.

Hell if he was here I'd still say he could burn it if he wanted to.

I don't actually recall him ever syaing anything about burning a flag not that it really matters though...
:?:

[Gokkem]

2 weeks or so ago I got a phone call from my best friend from high school (we live 3 hrs apart, don't see much of each other anymore). Apparently our other good friend (who lives in UT now) had a brother serving in Iraq. Guess what, he got killed. This tore me up, I knew Mason and he was a great guy and now he's dead. But Mason gave his life for our county, and I will forever respect him for that.

That being said, I lost someone I knew in the war; and I was there to help my friend. Does this change my opinion of it? Hell no. Mason would have been proud knowing his death is quite possibly saving thousands of Iraqis lives, I know this. War is a terrible, horrible thing. But I still defend our nation and our president for actions against Afghanistan and Iraq.

[edge]

You dodge the questions I made nicely. Also you didn't tell me where you are from so I can counter this.

But hey. Keep buring American flags all you want. Good thing you are not here.

[StrayRogue]

Damn right Gokken. And edge, isn't this war meant to be allowing people like me, all the flag burning fags as you put it, to have our own views? Or is "America forever" the only view we are allowed to have?

[StrayRogue]

You should be glad you aren't here as well edge.

[Scott]

You criticize America for their crime. England has one of the highest crime rates in the world, higher then the US, russia, Germany, etc......

I hate people that spew off stupid random things that aren't even true.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Gemstone101
Yes please wake up.

England has the highest crime rate of any country.

As I said, Germany and France, not my own country. Plus I didn't say muggings or car crime, I said rape and murder, both of which America leads the pack.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Damn right Gokken. And edge, isn't this war meant to be allowing people like me, all the flag burning fags as you put it, to have our own views? Or is "America forever" the only view we are allowed to have?
Everyone can have their own point of view except you Stray.

Your opinions shall be handed to you by Edge every morning with your coffe.

That is all.

[StrayRogue]

Hey, America, when you gonna apologize for vietnam btw?

[Edaarin]

That does it. Edge, StrayRogue, you need to calm the hell down. I got through editing about two posts, when I realized I was going to be editing the same damn thing over and over. Stop with the childish name calling, stop with the ridiculous f-bomb riddled posts. Occasional swearing is okay, but when every other damn word in the post is shit, fuck, or some other profanity, it gets old. I'm going to go through this godforsaken thread and edit out every profanity laced post, but I don't have time for this. You should know better. You may not like each others opinions, but at least respect them, or take it to U2U or something else. You're both making yourselves look bad.

[edge]

My final comment on this will be to you though edge. <You are truley naive if you think America went to war with Iraq for humanitarian reasons. You went to war, your son would have died for one thing, and one thing only. Money.>

I agree we went for money, at least I think that is the reason. Bush = Oil. But we did help many many people. But we helped the WORLD! How can you see we didn't. Saddam was a murdered, his sons was rapist. Hell one of his sons got caught raping a chick in another country and he bought his way back to Iraq. We all know this country is better off now. But yet we play this little pathetic political game. People that do that are less than human.

Once again. Even though you are not American. I would die trying to save your life. Even though you are a flag-burner.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
As I said, Germany and France, not my own country. Plus I didn't say muggings or car crime, I said rape and murder, both of which America leads the pack.

WooHoo!

We're in front. :bouncy:

[edge]

<Hey, America, when you gonna apologize for vietnam btw? >

When they return all the POWs or their bodies.

[Edaarin]

And for the record, I'm Vietnamese.

I'm also an American. I'm happy to be in this country, my parents gave up a very comfortable life and everything they had to get me and my siblings here, and I'm proud to be a citizen. I wouldn't change it for a thing.

There's two sides to every story. I don't consider every vietnam vet a crazy gung ho asshole who went around killing innocent villagers. Have you ever read a POW story? They're heartwrenching. Stop posting ignorant shit.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Hey, America, when you gonna apologize for vietnam btw?

First words that sprung to mind here.

Opium Wars.

[edge]

So you still not going to tell us your countries origin? To scared we can dig up crap on you.....lol

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Skirmisher

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Damn right Gokken. And edge, isn't this war meant to be allowing people like me, all the flag burning fags as you put it, to have our own views? Or is "America forever" the only view we are allowed to have?
Everyone can have their own point of view except you Stray.

Your opinions shall be handed to you by Edge every morning with your coffe.

That is all.

*salutes*

People, people, we are all one to have our opinions. None of this matters. I do not hate America. It does not matter if I think going to war with Iraq is wrong, and Edge think its right. We have been to war with the country, so that argument is over. If edge and anyone else wants to think me an anti-america pig who wants to burn flags and watch Saddam take over the world, fine, I won't try to stop you. You're wrong, just like we ALL maybe wrong in this discussion, but we are still entitled to be wrong, even if we think its right. AND that, Freedom of Speech (and thought) I DO respect America and my own country for.

Originally posted by edge
My Grandmother asked me how I would feel if my son was over there and died in the war...

I said this. I would be proud if my son died fighting to help people that would NOT defend themselves. I am sorry, but Backlash thinks that is dishonoerable. I don't care for what reasons we went there. But if we made Iraa safer or better place then we was right for going over there.

Only heartless people would think sitting on the sideline watching people being killed nonstop and doing nothing are the worthless people in the world. If you saw someone being raped, would you just walk by? Yep, most would because the are pussies. But I would die defending someone. What greater honor in life could you do then trade your life for anothers defense? Yep. bash me pussies and show your true colors like Backlash.

I would disown my son (pretend he never existed) if he threw his life away for any country.

Edit: Modified to be more "patriot friendly."

[Edited on 9-7-2003 by Demon Lord Kage]

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Demon Lord Kage
I would disown my son (pretend he never existed) if he was stupid enough to throw his life away for any country.

I'm sure I speak for many when I say how fervently I pray you never procreate.

[StrayRogue]

Hey, I am glad Saddam is gone. I still disagree with how its gone. As for Vietnam, yeah I have read stories, it was required reading on one of my old courses. As was the fact America is still yet to apologize officially for it.

As for my countries origin? *shrug* Don't see what you mean. People originated from Africa originally. If you wish to know more on that, please do a google search for Mitachondrial Eve.

Originally posted by Skirmisher
I'm sure I speak for many when I say how fervently I pray you never procreate.

Oh, I'll most certainly procreate. ;) Maybe 10 or 12 kids.

[StrayRogue]

Klaive, it probably means nothing, but I respect that choice. I agree with it 100%.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Hey, I am glad Saddam is gone. I still disagree with how it was done. As for Vietnam, yeah I have read stories, it was required reading on one of my old courses. As was the fact America is still yet to apologize officially for it.

As for my countries origin? *shrug* Don't see what you mean. People originated from Africa originally. If you wish to know more on that, please do a google search for Mitachondrial Eve.

[edge]

<You should be glad you aren't here as well edge.>

Why? You would attack and try to kill me because I am American? I been all over the world and I yet to have any problems because I was a American.

One place I would like to go to is Vietnam and see where all those soldiers died at. There are some interesting tours I thought about taking.

I have been to France, Spain, All over Canada, Mexico, Panama, Jamacia, Iceland, Isreal, Dubia, Abi Dabie and many other countries(pardon the misspellings). I have never had a problem or a fight in them. Seen the running of the bulls, fell in love with a woman from the Phillipinnes. I am not a racist, but I don't understand Homosexuals. But, I am trying to since my friend of 20+ years came out recently. That's why I started really going off on them. I am not willing to give up a friend over this, so I have to change my opinion. Can you say you would do this? I doubt most would. Egos are very confusing.

But bottom line. I will never stand by while someone is raped or murdered. You may do that, but I will never. I will trade my life trying to save anothers. Most people are to scared to do that. But I am not one. Can you say that?

[Edaarin]

You've read stories? My family LIVED it. I've heard them firsthand. My situation right now is the direct result of that war. If there's an apology to be made, I don't think a blanket, 'We're sorry' from the United States will cover anything. There was blame on both sides, and I accept that. If the Vietnamese people held a grudge, why would so many of us immigrated to the United States?

[Skirmisher]

You are quoting yourself now Stray?

Now thats an ego.

[edge]

<As for my countries origin? *shrug* Don't see what you mean. People originated from Africa originally. If you wish to know more on that, please do a google search for Mitachondrial Eve.>

That is false. The oldest documented human bones was found in Iraq. Why people think the garden of eden is somewhere there.

This is the dource of all evil if you are a bible thumper. Which means Saddam will never be found since he is the devil. Corrupt the source of all good and it will spread outward. But I have a hard time believing in the bible. Read it twice and still no answers.

[StrayRogue]

Please do a search, I think you're mistaken edge. But then you are one to believe whatever Bush tells you, so actual evidence won't sway your mind now will it?

As for Vietnam, there are still alot of people who feel the Vietnam war was a good thing, was a right thing. I don't hate the soldier's who went there to kill, nor the ones who died or came back (I have seen Rambo ;)). But the consensus I get when reading about your country these days, is that it was a mistake. Correct me if I am wrong. I think this war was wrong as well. And it pains me to think, like in the case of Vietnam, that people will go on thinking it was a just and good thing to do.

Edit: I don't even want to see a racial slur in quotations or used as an example. That's just asking for it.

[Edited on 9-7-2003 by Edaarin]

[Edaarin]

The Vietnam controversy split this country in half. It wasn't the GI's faults (except in a very few cases), they got a lot of grief for their pains. Initially, it was seen as sort of a peacekeeping mission, and an attempt at containment, that ultimately escalated. It cost a president his job, and thousands died.

"An adviser to President Lyndon Johnson has recalled that once when reporters asked him why the United States was waging war in Vietnam, the president 'unzipped his fly, drew out the substantial presidential organ, and declared, 'That is why.'"

[StrayRogue]

Exactly Edaarin. I was not hassling you or anyone. People can think what they want. I just find it a bit nasty that there are still some American's that agree with what happened.

[edge]

<Please do a search, I think you're mistaken edge. But then you are one to believe whatever Bush tells you, so actual evidence won't sway your mind now will it? >

I don't blieve anything out of this man. But I am still proud to be a American. I think the reasons and I have said many times we went to war was wrong. We should have gone in on human rights violations and all the broken resolutions. But we didn't. BUT we did make Iraq a better place I think. I served in one war. We should have finished it back then.

But bottom line. We have save thousands, but we hurt Frances economy which didn't kill thousands. I think saving outweights economic reasons. Because we put a huge economic burden upon ourselves in the process.

What I am going to search?

[StrayRogue]

I grudgingly agree with you there Edge, except on the Iraq being made a better place. That remains to be seen, as they are still in a shit condition.

Please do a search for Mitachondrial Eve. Its a bit scientific, but interesting.

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Klaive, it probably means nothing, but I respect that choice. I agree with it 100%.

No, it actually means a lot.

I'm glad someone understands where I'm coming from.

To die for your country may be honorable, but you're still dead.

I'd rather be the father of a living "unpatriotic coward" than a "dead hero."

[Artha]

I think the oldest bones were in Africa. The garden of Eden is said to be in Iraq for many reasons, one of which is that there's a valley there called Aeden. It's suburbs now.

And it's definately a better place. Anyone who says different is either stupid, or a ba'athist.

[StrayRogue]

I disagree with that sentiment however ;)

Its land. We don't own it really. And I refuse to die for a government who does not ask me if I want my taxes to pay for bullets to kill another human being, or tells me what to do, especially when I never swore fealty to said power.

Oh, one thing I do hate, more than the US government, is fucking Royalists. I used to live with one. His, "I would die for my Queen" was commendable, but stupid.

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I disagree with that sentiment however ;)

Its land. We don't own it really. And I refuse to die for a government who does not ask me if I want my taxes to pay for bullets to kill another human being, or tells me what to do, especially when I never swore fealty to said power.

Oh, one thing I do hate, more than the US government, is fucking Royalists. I used to live with one. His, "I would die for my Queen" was commendable, but stupid.

Oh I agree, when I said honorable and hero, I was referring to what the populace would think of him.

I would think he was more brave for not fighting, and much smarter too.

[edge]

But he could be a dead victim. Just like 9\11.

Everything that happened that day will take generations to get over.

Everything that happened to the UN will take generations to get over.

The hard feelings between France and the US will take our kids, kids to forget. That is a shame though.

We are trying to breach that conflict, but France wants to hold onto the hate. That is not good, whether or not we was wrong. We are the ones trying to make it right. But they are not willing in the least to try and make things right, which is making them look worse and creating even more hate. Even more economic consequences in the future for both of us.

In my mind. The bigger man would say to his people. The US has asked for our help, even though we disagreed with the reasons of the war. We are going to help to better the future of the Iraqi people. This is the right thing to do. IMO.

But what we did sent a message to the world. The future will tell whether terrorist will do this agian and think they will be safe from us.

[StrayRogue]

I don't really agree with you Edge, but thats seemingly a given these days. Its pointless to argue to each other as we are both immovable in our views.

And yeah Klaive. I think it takes a braver man not to fight.

[edge]

Artha you are thinking of the oldest human-like bones. They was found in Africa. But I was talking about Biblical. Which doesn't take into account evolution..

[edge]

<And yeah Klaive. I think it takes a braver man not to fight.>

I don't understand this. I see. It's takes a braver man to stand by and watch while his friends and family die. Ever seen the Patriotic? He stood by and watched his child be murdered. That's what it took to get him to fight. That is a niave way of life.

Originally posted by edge
But he could be a dead victim. Just like 911.

Everything that happened that day will take generations to get over.

Everything that happened to the UN will take generations to get over.

The hard feelings between France and the US will take our kids, kids to forget. That is a shame though.

We are trying to breach that conflict, but France wants to hold onto the hate. That is not good, whether or not we was wrong. We are the ones trying to make it right. But they are not willing in the least to try and make things right, which is making them look worse and creating even more hate. Even more economic consequences in the future for both of us.

In my mind. The bigger man would say to his people. The US has asked for our help, even though we disagreed with the reasons of the war. We are going to help to better the future of the Iraqi people. This is the right thing to do. IMO.

But what we did sent a message to the world. The future will tell whether terrorist will do this agian and think they will be safe from us.

If I had lost someone very close to me in the September 11th incident... I genuinely believe that it would change very little for me. You see... when someone is dead, the only thing that matters now is how they lead their life.

Knowing that someone I love died after killing countless others just to defend a physical location and people who genuinely don't give a damn about them makes me ill.

But if someone I love were unexpectedly killed by a driveby or a terrorist attack or in an armed robbery... I wouldn't be after revenge. Hate wouldn't be on my mind.

Because what matters is... that person I loved is gone now. And there would only be room in my heart for sadness.

Originally posted by edge
<And yeah Klaive. I think it takes a braver man not to fight.>

I don't understand this. I see. It's takes a braver man to stand by and watch while his friends and family die. Ever seen the Patriotic? He stood by and watched his child be murdered. That's what it took to get him to fight. That is a niave way of life.

Don't watch your child be murdered man! RUN! Get up to Canada or somewhere!

[Jack]

[/i]
[/quote]

Oh I agree, when I said honorable and hero, I was referring to what the populace would think of him.

I would think he was more brave for not fighting, and much smarter too. [/quote]

To date, I've lost seven friends over in Iraq. One was a former roommate of mine. We lived in the same run down barracks room for two years. He was like a big brother to me in many ways. I wouldn't be what I am today if I had never met him. He gave his life so that the people of Iraq could live in freedom. Free from the oppression of a ruthless dictator. And now you, the worthless piece of shit that you are, have the gall to say this man was a coward, and stupid for giving his life for his country? Pray to whatever, or whomever you find holy that you and I never cross paths.

-An angry Jack

[StrayRogue]

Well, you have a point. But do you think its easier to kill that man edge, or say, "I understand why you killed my loved ones, but I will not bow down to bestial suggestion. I want to understand why you killed them, and want to know what I can do to stop you from killing anyone ever again". Killing is easy. Forgiveness isn't.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Jack
[/i]


Oh I agree, when I said honorable and hero, I was referring to what the populace would think of him.

I would think he was more brave for not fighting, and much smarter too. [/quote]

To date, I've lost seven friends over in Iraq. One was a former roommate of mine. We lived in the same run down barracks room for two years. He was like a big brother to me in many ways. I wouldn't be what I am today if I had never met him. He gave his life so that the people of Iraq could live in freedom. Free from the oppression of a ruthless dictator. And now you, the worthless piece of shit that you are, have the gall to say this man was a coward, and stupid for giving his life for his country? Pray to whatever, or whomever you find holy that you and I never cross paths.

-An angry Jack [/quote]

Lol, gotta love these people. I notice how Klaive nowhere said he thought people who died for their government or religion is a coward, like you claim. Stupidity is subjective as well. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by StrayRogue

Lol, gotta love these people. I notice how Klaive nowhere said he thought people who died for their government or religion is a coward, like you claim. Stupidity is subjective as well. :rolleyes:

I have noticed that if I hold an unpopular opinion on any subject others feel strongly about, they take liberties with my posts and add things that I never said.

Fighting for your country is not cowardly. I feel that it is blind. Some may even say it shows a lack of intelligence. But no, I am not insulting those who give their lives for what they believe in.

I'm merely stating that me and mine won't be involved in any of your wars. I would never die for America and if I ever enlisted, I couldn't lie to myself and say, "I'm defending my family and my home." cause I'm not. My family would've already moved out of the country and found a new home before the army bus came to pick me up.

So yeah, THAT's my point. But I'm sure you'll read this post and imagine somehow that I called your mother ugly or something, so I'm not expecting my point to sink in.

[StrayRogue]

Wow Klaive, that made a lot of sense. I am finding myself nodding to Edge too. WTF is going on?!

[Jack]

Klaive said he would be braver, and smarter for not fighting. That statement to me means those that do are less brave, and less smart, thus cowards, and stupid. That is how I took it.
-Jack

[Betheny]

I'm not even going to read this thread.

I am going to say I don't think Backlash, or Kranar for that madder, are in any way the same as the people you reflected in your original post, Edge.

Originally posted by Maimara
I'm not even going to read this thread.

I am going to say I don't think Backlash, or Kranar for that madder, are in any way the same as the people you reflected in your original post, Edge.

Matter.

[Jack]

Thank you for clarifying your position Klaive. Allthough I still disagree with you, I see that you aren't attempting to be insulting.

-Jack

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Wow Klaive, that made a lot of sense. I am finding myself nodding to Edge too. WTF is going on?!

Well, it's strange how things work.

Sometimes you start out hating someone because you don't see the whole picture.

Then this kinda topic comes up and you find out that you aren't so different after all.

I for one think you're a much better person than I had previously assumed.

I may not agree with Edge's opinions either, but I can at least see where he's coming from.

[Edited on 9-7-2003 by Demon Lord Kage]

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Demon Lord Kage
Matter.

What the hell is that supposed to mean, jackass?

[edge]

<Well, you have a point. But do you think its easier to kill that man edge, or say, "I understand why you killed my loved ones, but I will not bow down to bestial suggestion. I want to understand why you killed them, and want to know what I can do to stop you from killing anyone ever again". Killing is easy. Forgiveness isn't.>

If I tried this I would be dead by their hands. They captured a journalist, totured him and murdered him. you can be the middle man...Oops. You can't talk anymore because you are dead.

Originally posted by Maimara

Originally posted by Demon Lord Kage
Matter.

What the hell is that supposed to mean, jackass?

You said, "for that madder".

I corrected you.

Now I'm off to eat Chinese.

I won't specify exactly what I mean by that. I'll leave it up to your imaginations. :smilegrin:

Originally posted by Jack
Thank you for clarifying your position Klaive. Allthough I still disagree with you, I see that you aren't attempting to be insulting.

-Jack

Thank you, Jack.

[Betheny]

Klaive is always insulting.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by edge
<Well, you have a point. But do you think its easier to kill that man edge, or say, "I understand why you killed my loved ones, but I will not bow down to bestial suggestion. I want to understand why you killed them, and want to know what I can do to stop you from killing anyone ever again". Killing is easy. Forgiveness isn't.>

If I tried this I would be dead by their hands. They captured a journalist, totured him and murdered him. you can be the middle man...Oops. You can't talk anymore because you are dead.

Yes Edge. But, like you and your son, I would have died for what I believe in.

[Tendarian]

After reading all that i just have two questions.

Klaive? You would really disown your own son for believing in something so strongly he was willing to die for it? Truly?

Stray? Not that it really matters but what country do you live in? I always assumed you were brittish cause of some post you said you had that accent but i think you just said you dont live there now no? I get confused.

[Back]

Glad you posted, Edge. It gave me a chuckle and with the hard time I've been giving you, I was expecting it. Sorry I missed it until today! Busy social weekend.

The only thing that really got to me was talking about my parents. I don't think I've ever done that to you or anyone on these boards. It got to me about half a second, then I realized where it came from and in what context. I take everything on these boards with a grain of salt because I know the medium is limited.

Face to face, things would be much different, and not because you threatened me with physical violence. Our opinions of each other would change drastically because these boards cannot convey the reality of the people we actually are.

Contact me via AIM at zendada. You'll find out I'm not the person you described in your first post. Not by a longshot.

Originally posted by Tendarian

Klaive? You would really disown your own son for believing in something so strongly he was willing to die for it? Truly?

Of course not. I would disown him for willingly throwing his life away over some antiquated sense of duty and loyalty to a country dispite all my teachings to the contrary.

My children will be taught that they are NOT Americans, but citizens of the world. Fighting against other humans is idiotic and only contributes to the problem. Global peace is not unrealistic, it is just an overwhealming task giving how much hatred still exists in the world.

But on a large scale, global peace is only the first step. When we encounter non-human intelligent life, we will be royally screwed should they seek to war with us.

We are so divided as things currently are, any force with Technology better than America and Japan and manpower greater than China would wipe us ALL out.

I'm not saying that will ever happen... but no one can say that it won't. But if for no other reason than the prosperity of our own race and the hope for a better future for our children, we should still strive for world peace, followed by global unity.

If *my* son died fighting in a war, he would be spitting in my face and bucking his upbringing completely. He would be defying all odds and turning out to be nothing like his peers who were also never spanked (I don't believe in spanking). Most of all, he would have chosen a side directly opposed to me.

It doesn't matter what country you're from. If you contribute to war, you are opposed to me.

Though the absolute biggest thing is... not only did he disrespect me and everything he was taught... but he died in the process. Time heals all wounds, assuming the wounds don't belong to a corpse.

I could've forgiven him for fighting and disrespecting me... but now he's dead... now all I'm left with is old age and memories and the realization that by his own hand, he made things this way... and I would regret from that day forward that I ever had a son... unless of course he had a child, then I wouldn't regret fathering him, only that he gave up his life so foolishly.

[HarmNone]

I cannot imagine disowning my child because that child chose another way than my way. For me, raising children was a matter of nurturing their individuality. Were I to then disown a child who used that individuality to make choices right for him/her, I would not be a parent but a tyrant.

My children have made their own choices. Some of their choices I agreed with and some I did not. However, I honor those choices and am proud to have raised children who are capable of finding their own way and standing up for what they, not I, believe.

HarmNone

[Tendarian]

Wow you're definately a unique person. I dont know what else to say other then i think you are wrong. I was going to go into a whole children are people and they form there opinions of things and become individuals not just klaive jr's tangent but instead ill just Wow and be done with it :)

[Back]

Yeesh, I realize I've been absent for like a day but...

I finally get my name in a topic for some good bashing and somehow it turns into being about Klaive!

[Tendarian]

Hush you socialist! You probably were gone for the day lighting kittens on fire and spitting on lil old ladies. You're the poster boy of evil just admit it.


Sorry about asking Klaive stuff in your thread. It just makes my brain itch the way that man thinks. I can even understand you and Stays opinions on things,even though i disagree. But Klaive's stuff just blows me away as insanity or something. No offense Klaive! :)

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Tendarian
After reading all that i just have two questions.

Klaive? You would really disown your own son for believing in something so strongly he was willing to die for it? Truly?

Stray? Not that it really matters but what country do you live in? I always assumed you were brittish cause of some post you said you had that accent but i think you just said you dont live there now no? I get confused.

I live in Britain Tendarian ;) But please, don't let that put any of you off me :D

[Warriorbird]

Of course Edge is anti Iraq. That's what the Republicans want him to be. He buys into disproved allegations and all sorts of nonsense like that. "We must stop Iraq!" yet I'm sure he didn't give a damn about Rwanda...or Yugoslavia...because the Republican media hadn't warped him into wanting too. I was entirely in favor of American actions in Afghanistan...in fact, I think they should've been more severe...much more, even. I think we should be using all our resources hunting Bin Laden...even into Pakistan or Saudi Arabia if we have to. I consider myself a patriot, but that doesn't mean I'm going to buy the George Bush Jr. bait and switch tactic because we couldn't catch Bin Laden.

I'm sorry Edge is so deluded...but half of America is just like him. That I'm even more sorry about.

[Edited on 9-8-2003 by Edaarin]

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Warriorbird

I'm sorry Edge is so deluded...but half of America is just like him. That I'm even more sorry about.

[Edited on 9-8-2003 by Edaarin]

I think this is why there is alot of...friction between many of the countries. I can say that the normal perception of the everyday American, from a British perspective, is that of someone exactly like edge. Its why I find myself at odds with you guys so often.

But it is a generalization. Not all of you are like that, just like not all of "us" are tea-drinking, pale, cricket watching pommes ;)

Originally posted by StrayRogue

all of "us" are tea-drinking, pale, cricket watching pommes


Really? I thought England was very diverse!

[StrayRogue]

It was sarcasm my dear.

[Back]

Dated a couple of english women. They rocked my socks. Damn immigration laws...

This just popped into my head...


I once dated a chick from Great Britian,
with her I was definately smitten,
her vocabulary did not lack,
while we were in the sack,
and afterwards she would purr like a kitten.

[Edited on 9-9-2003 by Backlash]